Reincarnation

[mar10]

All Hail . . . um . . . what's his handle . . . oh yeah . . . Jeremiah.
Jere. The Big J. The Jermiester.

Wow. You nailed it Cal, dull AND dimwitted. And Jere, these are just the kind words.

Come on guys. This is like challenging an unarmed man to a battle of wits. He has nothing. He doesn't get it. Any of it. Jere, I feel bad for you because you are embarrassing yourself here. For example. A real simple one:

You sharpen your barbs at Bob, the mortal. As though the Prince of this Earth would be something else. Like say - Jesus. Ooops, he was mortal. Ok, John the Baptist. Damn - mortal also. Are you getting it yet? The Father does not send supernatural beings, or I don't know - what were you expecting? These kind of jobs require getting your hands dirty - having some integrity, putting your life on the line - and usually getting killed for it.

And what kind of proof are you looking for? I can't say for 100% certainty things are exactly like Cal says. And even he does not say everything is all worked out. It is still a journey for him as well. JUST LIKE the rest of us.

But for many of us here, we have spent years working out the arguements and the logic of the material presented. We have also had some undeniable experiences too. AND we are also strongly independent thinkers. This isn't a club, Jere boy. If you have some intelligent banter, then out with it already.
Otherwise, you are just the monkey at the zoo that throws his own crap, because he is trapped inside a cage - and in your case the cage is your own mind. NONE of us give a rat turd if you agree with anyone here.

And another thing, not all of us agree with each other in the first place. These are all INDIVIDUALS here. But we do give each other the respect of civilized intellectual debate. 'BOB' has already given you the challenge. Out with it already.

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Imbasile

When we re - incarnate we are wiped of any memories (can you explain why this is?)

Consider this. If you came into life with memories intact, your new life would be nothing more than a continuation of the old one. They'd be nothing new to be learned and 'if' that prior life time was of a poor nature - no possibility of advancement.

Consider the story of Methusala. In 1000 years of life, all he did was to make a lot of babies. No significant accomplishment anywhere and certainly no upward movement spiritually.


Some "special" projects persons are allowed their memories or are "woke up" when it is time for them to fulfill their mission.

I wouldn't make is sound this easy. I had to scratch and claw my way through it and came to it only when I discovered that the pieces of my life were not added up to what I thought was the whole. The parts were exceeding the whole and that is logically impossible. It followed that my view of the whole was deficient and I started looking for the truth of things.

As for the timing of things and the arrival of the Advens, one has to point the finger at Father for this. I shot arrows in the air and knew that Father would sort them out - and He did. I can't speak for how each came to their own awakening but I am initimately acquainted with my own and there was nothing 'easy' about it.



As for 2012 - all of this stems from the Mayan Calendar which, according to their paradigm, ends on 12/21/2012. Most of the work on this is interpretative and subjective to error in interpretations. I can assure you that I didn't look into the future and say. well..... the moon is in the 7th house and jupiter is aligned with mars so lets do something radical on THIS day.

My easiest explanation is that the Mayans had too little or too much rock and kept going until they ran out. No one knows and my explanation is flippant.

[Jeremiah]

Jere

Your guns are as empty as your head and your heart. So, let's assume you miraculously remove me from the equation - what do you replace me with? The UB? More of your drivel.
Where comes the truth?

The only emptyness I could find this far is in you brain, sorry to say that. I don' wanna miraculously remove you form the equation, and I don't wanna replace you, I just want you to accept that you ain't prince zelda and start acting like the human you are.

As a foreigner - your uneducated opinion of us isn't worth much
The same will apply to you, you give opinion to all over world thinking you're prince of persia, when the rest of world couldn't careless about you're thoughts

Me thinks you'd be better off solving the problems of Mexico before you presume to solve those of others.
The thing is I can't solve mexico's problems cause I ain't no saviour, I've stated that before... perhaps you're blind and can't read, sorry for being agressive but you leave me no choice

[Jeremiah]

It just dawned on me who Jere is.
the only clue you could possibly have is if you work for the government.... wich will make you a burocrat, but of course you're one, working for the higher hierarchy of superman's land...shame I forgot

the years we had Tueday night chats, 2 Ubite mexicans would show up - always under different names - spewing deceit and UB tripe with the purpose of disrupting conversation. I'd always give them the boot and the rest of us would continue. Now, we have one arrived into the posting forum
Sorry but it wasn't me, and I repeat it for the deaf ears or the blind eyes I ain't an UB reader nor an Ubite

Jere is also a long standing participant at Ubron.org. His tripe there isn't much better and he's been warned about misbehaving there as well.
You've got the wrong person, it's not me participating in any other forum, I've said that before. I was only ocassianally participating here on planetary hq until you started attacking me

The people here tend to be civil to each other even in disagreement. Ubites generally don't.
As for Jere - be it on ubron or here - his tripe is always the same - dull - dimwitted and soaked in negativity.
I'll repeat it so you could have it clear, maybe you suffer from that wich you accuse

BTW Jere - one of the advantages of getting older is that everyone who ever called me Bobby - has died.
I don't get what you're trying to say, are you wishing me bad? that's not nice for a planetary prince to do... any way I'm not afraid of steping to the other side but if that's the case I'll reach father sooner than you.

So, let's get to it shall we. Let's assume you've removed me. What great truth do you offer to the readers of this forum AND WHAT PROOF do you have? Your word counts for diddly squat without proving.
Can't you get it I'm not here to proof, offer or sell any truth, but to demonstrate that you're just a bad joke of a religious guru, and dont answer me as this will be a neverending story, let's just give it an end here.
peace

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Ok Jere

That's what I thought - you don't have any thoughts would I will admit for all the world.
I'M NOT PRINCE ZELDA not that I think the admission will make you a happier person.

So, as I see it, you have nothing to offer (one way or another) and that your sole purpose here on the forum is to act like a jerk. Hey buddy, I offered you center stage to make your case and, if you're to be believed, you have no case to make.

[Jeremiah]

I've just out found out that you've tried to ban me
c'mmon bobby don't.
This is just showing how untorable you're.
Don't, we still can be friends. I have nothing personal against you, let me be here, what are you afraid of? this is the land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE
peace

[walompio]

Marten, thanks for looking at my point here.

Reincarnation. Try working backwards from the position of assuming reincarnation for the common man is valid. Why would man need to reincarnate? If free will is also assumed, then everything before rapture is your free will - including reincarnation.

So, why would you choose to reincarnate? To take another shot at what you missed in the previous round. It has been reasoned to me that lifetimes are limited to a finite number of years (roughly 100 years max) for good reason. As we get older we learn less and less, and are less likely to make significant life changes either for better or worse. We stagnate.

So, learn from the framework. Man inherantantly stagnates on evolutionary momentum, and needs to reincarnate to get another chance. Even if you take reincarnation out of the equation, you are still left with "inherant stagnation". We ALL get set in our ways and our beliefs, and don't move forward. The key is to get unstuck - by being good and doing good. Sometimes when you are really stuck in the muck, you have to pull your feet right out of your boots and leave them behind. Get a new pair of boots and take a different path.

Marten

I understand this position clearly. People, as they get older get set in their ways making the ability to correct mis-behavior difficult with age right?

Then, to be able to 'reset' the experience, and allowing the personality to start over with a new brain, and a new experience, the person recarnates. And this is all a choice, because we have free will. I think I understand that pretty good.

Tha't fine by me.... My point relates strictly to the roadblock this issue arrives at when considering 6 billion people reincarnating in a 200,000 year span, given the population growth trend. It dis-allows equal opportunity for experience for all 'assigned' souls to a world, therefore setting the stage for advantage to the first appearing by way of more experience (time alive) and less chance to those who barely get in the living game at the last minute...

Cal explains that reincarnation is not a common practice in the universe. Then the common practice is the morontia worlds as explained in the UB. Here is how I understand it:

There are seven stages of personality growth you have to attain, either here or during the morontia career, that's why there are seven mansion worlds. But you can do all seven while in mortal state and 'fuse' with your adjuster.

If you don't get to the third stage while a mortal, you become a sleeping survivor after death and have to wait for a 'dispensation' which is when all the seraphic guardians take the personalities they are in charge with to morontia 1.

If you do attain at least the 3rd stage, then you will wake up in the first morontia world after the third day (which is the time a seraph takes to travel to Jerusem) and then wake up there in a brand new morontial body (between material and spiritual) and you spend seven days in each world which represents those stages, until you reach the one you are currently working on, and pick up your experience from there....

Wally

It's well established (for me) that you accept only what you want to hear and want to establish a personal paradigm to justify making poor choices. Freewill comes with responsibilities and consequences - something else you dont want to accept.

Regardless, reality has the certainty of bighting you in the butt whether you want to accept it or not.

Bob, I accept that which makes the most sense to me, that which rings true in my heart. I will always be open to re-evaluate what I hold to be true if I am presented with irrefutable arguments. Learning is a good thing, and sometimes to learn something new, one is forced to let go of the old beliefs right? Is that not what the Marten's point is? To be able to CORRECT CHARACTER by deciding to accept a new reality which is different from that to which one is adhered to? I am open to do that, so as long as I can see it clearly, study it in depth and analize it.

What poor choices am I looking to jusify by creating a 'personal paradigm'? I have faced the consequences of my actions all my life, and I have done so gladly even when they are sour and difficult ones. I accept them as I have earned them. I learn from the experiences so as to avoid repeating the mistakes. You are no judge of mine to pretend calling me out on any 'poor choices'. I judge you not on the poor choices you have made either, they are none of my business.

Everything is reciprocal and the concequences will be present inevitably wether they are good ones or detrimental ones. This is UNIVERSAL LAW, and no one is excempt from it.

The established system as explained in the UB, of the seven mansion worlds has been made so by The Creator Son Michael, as this is HIS universe, and HE runs, manages it and operates it in accordance to the will of the Father, whom HE represents in all of Nebadon. He has earned this right by way of his service, in HIM I place my allegiance.

[Deleted]

wow, jer, your purpose here aside...i really have no way of knowing and quite frankly don't care, you are annoying, could you please leave?

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

I've just out found out that you've tried to ban me
c'mmon bobby don't.

By what assumption do you presume to call me Bobby? You don't know me - you've never met me and your use of a diminutive speaks for itself.

This is just showing how untorable you're.

Or perhaps it is you who aren't worth tolerance.

Don't, we still can be friends. I have nothing personal against you, let me be here, what are you afraid of? this is the land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVEpeace

I have friends on this forum and you aren't one of them. Your presentation is disingenious and a lie as is your assumption that you could make me afraid of anything. Your logic, what little there is of it, is that unless I let you misbehave here, I'm fearful and intolerant.

Tell you what I'm going to do.

I'll start a thread called Jere. You post your thoughts under it ONLY. Anyone who wants to hear your tripe can read and respond as they please. Step outside that thread and you're gone.


Consider yourself on probation

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Tha't fine by me.... My point relates strictly to the roadblock this issue arrives at when considering 6 billion people reincarnating in a 200,000 year span, given the population growth trend. It dis-allows equal opportunity for experience for all 'assigned' souls to a world, therefore setting the stage for advantage to the first appearing by way of more experience (time alive) and less chance to those who barely get in the living game at the last minute...

This all souls conclusion has no merit whatsoever and, I'd submit, you are hardly in a position to judge what's good for one much less all. The TA and the individual agree upon the circumstances for the next lifetime BEFORE the person enters it. This is freewill and you aren't involved in those discussions.

What I really hear here is that if a person had a 'great' lifetime in the past, that should carry forward into the future and that it gripes you that it doesn't. In other words, you feel that greatness should be a cumulative and result in better circumstances for each subsequent lifetime. ie: you're not happy with your current circumstances and seek to blame someone other than yourself for it. You deem this as being 'unfair'.

My current circumstances are, by any reasonable yardstick, modest. Yet, were we to accept your dictums, I should be in a mansion on a mountain top with the world worshipping at my feet. I couldn't disagree more.

Bob, I accept that which makes the most sense to me, that which rings true in my heart.

Herein we always return to the real point. IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU!.
Truth isn't a variable that changes from person to person. The only variable is the vision of the individual at any given moment.



I will always be open to re-evaluate what I hold to be true if I am presented with irrefutable arguments. Learning is a good thing, and sometimes to learn something new, one is forced to let go of the old beliefs right? Is that not what the Marten's point is? To be able to CORRECT CHARACTER by deciding to accept a new reality which is different from that to which one is adhered to? I am open to do that, so as long as I can see it clearly, study it in depth and analize it.

I disagree with your ability to re-evalute. Your founding premise is in error.

Bob, I accept that which makes the most sense to me, that which rings true in my heart.

Your personal assumptions override the truth.

What poor choices am I looking to jusify by creating a 'personal paradigm'?

We have discussed this privately and I see no point in making it public.

I have faced the consequences of my actions all my life, and I have done so gladly even when they are sour and difficult ones.

Oh BS. You face the consequences because you have no other choice. As I said, reality bites you in the butt whether you like it or not.


You are no judge of mine to pretend calling me out on any 'poor choices'.

If one is to believe the story carved in rock and in the Revelation Code - I am your judge. You've seen both

Bob, I accept that which makes the most sense to me, that which rings true in my heart.

Again, we return to the variable of chosen perception versus reality.


I judge you not on the poor choices you have made either, they are none of my business.

Your judgements of me are irrelevant. I've stood my judgement before the Father and was not found wanting. The code confirms this repeatedly but you are right, its not your business.

Everything is reciprocal and the concequences will be present inevitably wether they are good ones or detrimental ones. This is UNIVERSAL LAW, and no one is excempt from it.

This has nothing to do with the universe. It is the law of cause and effect and the universe didn't invent the laws of physics - Immanuel did.

The established system as explained in the UB, of the seven mansion worlds has been made so by The Creator Son Michael, as this is HIS universe, and HE runs, manages it and operates it in accordance to the will of the Father, whom HE represents in all of Nebadon. He has earned this right by way of his service, in HIM I place my allegiance.

Nice verbage but that's all it is. The Code shows a universe that will make war against him as well as the Satanic Rebellion set to the same purpose. The source? The Apostle's John and Matthew.
John was chosen, appointed and annoited by the Son.

As the universe didn't expect a skin suit awakening of Earth's Planetary Prince, they also didn't know that the truth had been hidden in plain sight within the Bible. You can choose to believe the UB or the Bible. One can not accept both. From where I sit, the UB and the Universe were dead on arrival a long time ago.
If you choose to play in graveyards be my guest.

For the other's reading, I have a personal rule. When someone meets me, the first thing I usually tell them is 'Call me Bob'.
Wally has been a guest in my home and heard the same. Irregardless of the fact that we have substantial differences, I bear him no malice and wish only the best for him.

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Wally

I've given more thought to this subject.

The 'me me me' focus of your proposition has an excellent case in point. You'll know what I'm talking about.

You give lip service to Jesus but do you follow his teachings?

When confronted with those teachings and a 'want' that doesn't conform, you choose the want. Worse, when that want centers on the commission of sin - you'll go with the want. It follows that Jesus is agreeable lip service but little more.

You are possessed of a great gift. People like you right away and you can ingratiate yourself to most anyone. Me - they immediately want to do a strip search. It's a personality trait I wish I possessed. However, this gift can also be perverted towards the acquisition of wants.

It's about what we give - not what we take. You know this. When the day arrives that you quit wanting from others, you'll have learned something of value.

We always return to the same place and until you decide to get past it - you'll be stuck here. It's not about YOU. It's about service to Father by means of service to others. This was the message of Jesus - service and it through service to others that we also serve ourselves.

You say you will never stop learning. Well, this is the ONLY THING
you need to learn, believe and to impliment. Do this and the journey continues - do it not - and that journey stops here. You don't need the Bible or the UB to get it. It's so easy that our kids 'get it'.

[walompio]

Bob, I need some time to sit down and reply to your last two posts. My wife's days off are Tues and Wed and we usually get caught up running errands and such. The rest of the week, I have been spending with focus on getting a job, and in spare moments, I check out the forums and jot some ideas down.

In the meantime I want to tell you something important.

I would never (as you should know) bare you any ill will either despite the contrast in some opinions.

I'll continue our discussion in a couple of days.

And Thank You!

[jongonza]

Hello Everyone!

Cal:

I don't know if you remember me, but we've had a few conversations in the past. I also participate in the spanish forum but it's been a while since my last post here...

Anyway, my name is Jonathan and I'm from Costa Rica...Hope that rings a bell...

I just have a quick question for you:

How many advens have declined their "position" so to speak?

How do you interpret those defections?


Best Regards!

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

The answer is 2.

REV 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

REV 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

The warning was there for a reason.

The Advens, as they are currently exist, are the final configuration and there won't be any changes.

[walompio]

The only variable is the vision of the individual at any given moment.

We're getting somewhere with this point I think... So, if the vision is variable and it may not be in-line with the truth, then why are those with the limited vision judged poorly? BTW I am not refering to myself here. I know you said I failed Father's judgement, that I was found wanting and I will not ascend... I am making a general point.

I really hear here is that if a person had a 'great' lifetime in the past, that should carry forward into the future

> no, I am disagreeing with the whole reincarnation principle, why would I indulge in believing in carrying anything over into future lives...

Look, I am not going to dissect what you wrote last and continue on a discussion that I know wll not end. We always seem to reach the same roadblocks:

The TA and the individual agree upon the circumstances for the next lifetime BEFORE the person enters it.

If one is to believe the story carved in rock and in the Revelation Code - I am your judge. You've seen both

> Speaking of rcks. Why do you feel that you have to resort to people like Michael Tellinger to get information about rock carvings? Shouldn't you be led to these places the same way you arrived at AL? .. by way of visions or dreams?

Something else.. The things you say about me, make it seem as if I was some kind of self serving leech who feeds on others for auto aggrandizement. We shared about 20 days of face to face experience and that is what you conclude of me? Do you really think I am so self centered? Do any of the advens share this impression?