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Post by Caligastia Lanonandek on Oct 15, 2008 21:50:21 GMT -5
And your sourcing is valid?
Indeed it is Elise. I can establish by virtue of logic, reason and fact that I am, in fact, earth's planetary prince. It follows that I know more (and have demonstrated repeatedly) than you or others. Add to this the list of extraordinary accomplishments and you have a solid list of objective facts. It substantiates and supports the idea that my witness has value.
Now, if you compare my style of writing against Martin Luther, you find they are identical (secession is habit forming). If you read the thoughts of Thomas Jefferson - you'll know the Son's thoughts. He was young Tom to my Old Ben. To establish a line of incarnations, you'd have to do comparitives between them.
But first, you'd have to come with WHO needs the comparing.
That I'm not willing to give you. Casting pearls and all. Regardless, He'll arrive and speak for himself in his own time.
He did tell you - he'd be with us until the 'end of time'. Now you can believe him or not - I'm sure he won't be losing sleep either way.
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Post by Caligastia Lanonandek on Oct 15, 2008 21:55:15 GMT -5
Jere
Let me guess - they kicked you of the ubron Ubite forum.
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Post by elise on Oct 16, 2008 0:37:53 GMT -5
Now, if you'd like to restart this conversation from a more reasoned place, I'm willing to have a go at it but don' insult my intelligence assuming you can play me for a chump.
Why would I want to? I didn't come here to debate or argue like you seem to enjoy. The since you have already stereotyped me into a dishonest Ubite who has no interest in truth or learning new things and an idiot, what is the point in furthering the discussion? You have already answered my question.
People followed after Jesus not only because of the truth he spoke, but because he set the highest example of love for us to follow as well. It doesn't take a highly intelligent person who is good at debating with you to realize that you lack this. "By their fruits you will know them."
Thank you for your time and goodbye.
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Post by ophello on Oct 16, 2008 3:25:30 GMT -5
well i gotta say im sorry you have to leave so soon, but ill just chime in here:
cal does not "seem to enjoy" debating you. thats your assumption. strike 1
cal didnt stereotype you. you professed an adoration for a book with no author that has inconsistencies and problems you havent addressed even when the issue was put before you. your avoidance of scrutiny is a lot like dishonesty. strike 2
cal is not jesus. he also doesnt sugar-coat. but his love for Father and his devotion to his cause is real enough for anyone to see, and integrity is valuable in addition to love -- which you wont see because you've decided not to take the time to find out and have instead given up. strike 3
Your search for truth should not end when you decide you like what you hear.
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Post by Caligastia Lanonandek on Oct 16, 2008 5:21:36 GMT -5
Why would I want to? I didn't come here to debate or argue like you seem to enjoy.
Quite correct. You came here to promote Ubite propaganda under the pretext of seeking information and, like your book, assume to know that is in my heart and mind.
The since you have already stereotyped me into a dishonest Ubite who has no interest in truth or learning new things and an idiot, what is the point in furthering the discussion? You have already answered my question.
I didn't stereotype you - you did and as you gave no thought to performing research before you engaged me - you missed the wealth of information available to those who have tried to run the same act before.
People followed after Jesus not only because of the truth he spoke, but because he set the highest example of love for us to follow as well. It doesn't take a highly intelligent person who is good at debating with you to realize that you lack this. "By their fruits you will know them."
You'll forgive me if I ask you to produce your qualifications to stand in judgement on anyone. I, on the other hand, can produce mine. So, if I tolerated your deceptions and endured the abuse you intended to throw my way - I'd be of Jesus. No where did Jesus encourage people to behave stupidly.
Thank you for your time and goodbye.
The Ubites always leave shortly after they've been confronted. So far, you're running at 100% of all the known behaviours.
REV 6 2 AND I SAW AND BEHOLD A WHITE HORSE AND HE THAT SAT ON HIM HAD A BOW AND A CROWN WAS GIVEN UNTO HIM AND HE WENT FORTH CONQUERING AND TO CONQUER
REV 6 5 AND WHEN HE HAD OPENED THE THIRD SEAL I HEARD THE THIRD BEAST SAY COME AND SEE AND I BEHELD AND LO A BLACK HORSE AND HE THAT SAT ON HIM HAD A PAIR OF BALANCES IN HIS HAND
REV 6 8 AND I LOOKED AND BEHOLD A PALE HORSE AND HIS NAME THAT SAT ON HIM WAS DEATH AND HELL FOLLOWED WITH HIM AND POWER WAS GIVEN UNTO THEM OVER THE FOURTH PART OF THE EARTH TO KILL WITH SWORD AND WITH HUNGER AND WITH DEATH AND WITH THE BEASTS OF THE EARTH
These three horsemen track to me and constitute a partial list of my licenses (granted by the Father)
Your buddy the murderer Samael is this one
REV 6 4 AND THERE WENT OUT ANOTHER HORSE THAT WAS RED AND POWER WAS GIVEN TO HIM THAT SAT THEREON TO TAKE PEACE FROM THE EARTH AND THAT THEY SHOULD KILL ONE ANOTHER AND THERE WAS GIVEN UNTO HIM A GREAT SWORD
Very Jesus like of him wouldn't you say?
On your way out the door - let us take note of the three questions you couldn't answer from your book. 1. Why they say they don't know about Caligastia but later purport to know. 2. How wrote the book and 3. The Biblican expose' that the Ancient of Days is against the Son of God.
Also note I offered you a civil conversation 'if' you were willing to drop the deceit and duplicity. True Ubites can't - and never do - they leave. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
You may come to find that Hell is a very cold place.
Caligastia
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Post by Caligastia Lanonandek on Oct 16, 2008 5:23:31 GMT -5
Op
Thank you for the recognition.
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Post by Caligastia Lanonandek on Oct 16, 2008 5:38:53 GMT -5
Folks I'd like to offer a living counterpoint to Elise and her act - Stephen Thorburn. He came here originally as a 14 year true believer in the UB. He confronted me - I squared off with him - and we talked. At all times the discourse was polite. In time he came to review what was actually being said in the UB and the deceptive way it was presented. What he didn't do was run the first time he got his face slapped with some truth he didn't care for. Nor do I think he transferred his belief from the UB to me. Right from the jump in chapter one I told everyone I wasn't looking for their belief. If you need something to believe in - that should be Father. Me - I'm just one voice in the choir and Elise is quite wrong in her assessment that its me against the universe. It's Father, Immanuel, Michael, me and many others. I tend to catch more attention because I'm shoveling for a large and smelly manure pile. It's a poor job but someone had to do it  |
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Post by Caligastia Lanonandek on Oct 16, 2008 6:15:59 GMT -5
A final thought on Elise. She did do one thing that is 'different' from the average Ubite.
She split the hair about the difference between ego and self aggrandizement with the skill of a universal. According to the dictates of Samael - its evil to be good at what you do AND TO KNOW IT. He, of course, is exempt and is free to commit any crime he deems as there is no one to prosecute him - or so he thinks.
In 2002 we captured Satan and three of the 10 princes from the rebellion here on earth.
I can only wonder if Satan knew what he was doing when he brought them here. In truth, he did them the biggest of favors in setting them up for capture.
According to Rev Code - the 7 crowns of the 10 crown'd beast earn their way into perdition.
The 3 who couldn't fight in the war - don't - nor does Satan.
The code refers to the eighth angel - who also goes to perdition - this one is Samael.
And one more - the anti-christ.
These 9 do 1000 years in a skin suit here on earth and will fail judgement.
Satan and his three do as well - but apparently there is repentence.
All of these made war against the Son.
Samael, the Urantia Book and the Anti-Christ are all inextricably linked to each other.
Faith should be placed in the hands of the Father and not in a book BUT! if one is going to attach such to a book - it should be the Bible. The difference between the UB and Bible is simple. One leads to life eternal and other lead to death eternal. Both have the truth buried within the words but only one was written with deliberate and poor intent. The Bible was not.
Poor Elise, and others like her, are unwilling to consider that the path they walk leads only to their own self destruction. Samael's government is a dead as the UB and they won't save her (not that they'd have been inclined in that direction anyway). The Ubites believe that if they are good little brown shirts they can goose step their way to heaven. It amazes me that while they give lip service to the Son - the very book they worship is so far removed from love, tolerance and compassion that there is no possibility it has anything to do with the Son.
In the beginning of my journey people like Elise would arrive and engagement in battle. When they lost - they'd accuse me of not being 'angelic' (as if they had a long list of angelic acquaintences to make a comparison with). This judgement was delivered with the ferver of a gotcha or aha!
Since then, I limited myself to only one issue - the truth. As HQ has grown over the years, there are a wealth of examples to which one can refer and there are no shortage of Ubite exemplars. The Ubite methodologies aren't unique - these are non ascendant traits that plague a large part of the population. The Ubook serves only as a place for this particular group of people to focus their venom.
It is also note worthy that I have never had an ascendant ask me his status.
For me, the most important aspect of HQ was not as a way to teach but for me to collect the questons. It has been many years since I've heard a new one so I might indulge some ego aggrandizement and surmise I'm ready for the next leg of my mission.
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Post by stephen on Oct 16, 2008 9:23:31 GMT -5
Elise,
Cal is accurate in his account of my journey. I don't think you realize what a gift of truth he offers everyone here on HQ and to you personally so far in his interaction with you here. If only you could see past the UB long enough to get a glimpse of it your venom would be transformed into gratitude. I have read the UB and seen it for what it really is. It is a book of deception and lies.
Stephen
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Post by Jeremiah on Oct 16, 2008 11:13:35 GMT -5
Jere
Let me guess - they kicked you of the ubron Ubite forum.
No, I haven't been kicked from any forum, in fact I dont participate in anyother forum nor I'm a Ubite, as you call me, I've only ocassionaly post here in hq.
My "bad" is not to believe that you are who you claim to be...
but your bad is much much bigger: trying to brainwash everyone to keep on with your fantasy...
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Post by Parn on Oct 16, 2008 11:36:42 GMT -5
He never asked for belief, but brought forth proofs for you to take or leave at your leisure.
Now, it's your turn to back up your statements.
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Post by hollis on Oct 16, 2008 14:14:28 GMT -5
For me, the most important aspect of HQ was not as a way to teach but for me to collect the questons. It has been many years since I've heard a new one so I might indulge some ego aggrandizement and surmise I'm ready for the next leg of my mission.
Oh Man, now I am going to spend the rest of the day trying to come up with a new question.
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Post by Caligastia Lanonandek on Oct 16, 2008 15:15:43 GMT -5
Jere
Still don't get it do you. I'm not the messiah trying to sell anything nor are you the messiah empowered to save people from me. I'd suggest you spend more time tending to your own backside, if you keep your nose positioned near mine - the result could be messy.
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Post by ophello on Oct 16, 2008 16:39:17 GMT -5
Let me state for the record, Jere, that brainwashing occurs when one does not think for one's self. People who are brainwashed don't practice logic and have no identity. I, at one time, read the UB for inspiration. Today, I find that simply living life has more Truth to offer me than the UB.
Look around you. The people on this forum all think for themselves (most of them, anyway) and I am one of them. No one here is a "follower". Draw your own conclusions. Cal has done nothing but describe his experiences and elaborate on the conclusions he draws from them. It is evident for anyone to see that this is not a cult, and he is not its leader.
I wouldn't be so quick to judge us or Cal -- I suggest you take time with this mystery, as you've found it, and analyze it as you would any other anomaly, because if there is one thing we can all agree on, it is that Cal/Burgess is an anomaly.
The UB is also an anomaly, but you would have us love it and believe it without so much as blinking an eye. Who's brainwashed now?
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Post by mar10 on Oct 16, 2008 19:23:54 GMT -5
E
Consider the possibilities here. Cal is either who he says he is, or he is completely insane. A certifiable drooler. There is no middle ground. And if you take the time to go through the material on HQ, there is too much that lines up to just be coincidence.
Like the Rev Code for example. For 2000 years we have been looking at these scriptures (Revelation and Daniel), and NO-ONE has seen the undeniable genius and cohesion of these multi-layers works. Revelation tells us that we will not be able to understand these works fully until in the END TIMES someone will come along and unseals them. Well sweetie, consider them unsealed. This fact alone weighs heavily in his favour.
It took me seven years of careful examination (thanks for the patience Cal) of this material to get to a position of logical and cautious skepticism, and in the years since then, while I am much more at ease with the concepts, I STILL HAVE A JOB TO DO. And so do you. Pass judgement. Calm down – roll up your sleeves – do some work.
And consider this. If Cal is correct, then you can face his sharp demeanor now, with intellect and civil argument, or at Judgement. If he is wrong, defeat him with strong reasoning and solid logic. Emotional shrillary won’t pass here, it’s been tried too many times by many before you. It may sting a bit, but you may also learn something.
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