From Freedom To Fascism

[imbasile]

Z says: Besides irrational bursts of hate and anger aimed to the 'threat' to the program, the program generates also a series of 'words' on random basis, such as imbasiles last example.

I observe daily very intense and heated debates around this exact topic over here where i live. Pattern is quite clear.

Idealists sticks to their vision and while defending it they get stripped out from anything that resembless even remotedly anything civilized. It is like somesort of primal being is summoned from these people when confronted with calm logic, reason and provable facts..

Could you elaborate? I am not able to follow your point

[imbasile]

Dave? Sorry, had to have some fun waiting on my turkey to finish cooking...have a wonderful holiday

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Imbasile

I also didn't get your point. It appears you are arguing against the 5th amendment.

The purpose of the amendment was to stop the government from forcing someone to testify against himself and to insure the gov had only one bite at the apple in bringing charges against someone. This to eliminate the possibility of abuse where the gov would charge the same person repeatedly until they found a jury that came back with their opinion. One trial, one jury - done deal. Given that the gov has resources far greater than the average person, if they couldn't succeed in their relentless prosecutions - they could (at least) bankrupt you.

[Adam]

We stand on the precipice of the most exciting times in our modern history, and you fellows are arguing a moot point. Each to their own moment of evolution.
moot (my def) - of little concern.

Dave comment: OK the fellows argument is of little concern to you.


Quote:
The small view: true individual freedom on this planet means NO society, any society and the individual must give up some freedoms. The pendulum moves back a forth.

Dave comment: If all individuals behaved then the yoke of society is light.


That is the point, society DECIDES what behavior is proper for each, versus the individual

Dave comment: Well if government officials stayed true - small government. Individuals exploit government. Not society.


Quote:
Dave comment: Last time I heard, Satan is being held in a facility at home base. To be let loose in the future, so he can stand and answer for bad behavior. As I recall, it was said that Satan comes from the Lanonandek family of angels. Interesting that Old One is the Father of the Family. Old One runs home base. Anyhow the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is the vehicle for freedom. That individual choice (behavior) can choose to do good or bad is free will. However free will comes with a price. On judgment day.


Sorry, "satan" as the allegory of the negative spirits that "still" control this planet - even as Cal has said the main players may be in hold but the first officers and such are still doing the dirty work. The constitution is only as good as the people who back it (or don't as the case may be)

Dave Comment: I don't recall Cal speaking in the context that you assume. I agree about your assessment on the Constitution.


Quote:
Dave comment: The truth is all around you. You nor I are judge of the world. And we are on a journey to Ascendancy. All we are asked to do is our best with what we have been GIVEN.
If individual life came with a guarantee then there would be no free will. This world is about how well you as an individual can do.


Agree, but with the reservation of: We do judge our world and those around us (material and spiritual) . Binding?
perhaps not, but still the observation of and judgment of outcomes are part of our lives.

Dave comment: Material judgment of course. The outcome of the material world when Earth no longer serves purpose, has already been explained. Spiritual judgment by man runs the gambit from naivete to extreme arrogance. Not mankind's call.


Quote:
Dave comment: Well let it not be said that you are a victim of optimism. I would kind of like to think that my human brethren would object to your analysis, of their ability to make a difference. As I recall even Jesus spoke to humans about his Fathers Kingdom. On the subject of the person's that are Nephalim - the Prince of this World has spoken.


"like to think" is the operative. MOST humans would rather live their lives WITHOUT having to think. Therefore even IF they read my post they might get upset but that would be the end of it. As far as making a difference - ? isn't that why WE are in the shape we are in?

Dave: Well when you are anointed to speak for the people - drop me a line.



Quote:
Dave comment: Being liberal is a choice. Being conservative is a choice. Since reality shows that there is not one side to the story. I don't want laws passed and guns pointed at me. What I want is reason, justice and the pursuit of happiness for all. Communists yearn for a one sided story.


Dare I say that what you or I WANT is also a moot point? The lessons shall be as they are, we are to work with what is the best as we can. I have no fondness for ANY government, but it seems that most of this planet is either socialist or communist or a derivative of said. Even the republic that has now gone to democracy and into socialist/communizm is not a "free" society. America has the "illusion" of freedom while the elites do what they want and send the rest of our children to fight the wars they set up to gain more power. "We the people" have never had what the constitution guaranteed us. "We" have only been as "free" as "they" allowed us to be at any given time (try not going to war when "they" say you will or not paying the illegal IRS your taxes, you have the choice of jail or.....ummm jail)

Dave comment: Moot ( of little concern), I assume. Yea I understand the State of the State.
But until you understand that you will have to make a stand on what you value. All the crying on your part seems moot to me. And I have a different application for the word than you do.


As far a optimism, the only person that I know OF that I trust is Jesus (but since His words have been twisted and changed over the years I can only speculate on the small amount that does make sense), the rest have to earn that trust and I dare to say they have been far lacking. If you think this rude of me, I would remind you that only God the Father CAN prove that He exists and if He is un-willing then there is no proof (thanks be to the Father that He does this daily for us) I myself have to continually prove myself (trust) to these persons on this planet and that is not enough for them. So I now move from the side of the "benefit of the doubt" to the side of prove yourself to me or get away from me. (on my terms)

Dave comment: Your terms? We all volunteered for the program of Ascendancy. Welcome to the party. At some point whining will become moot.

I have heard get thee behind me satan. However when dealing with you fellow human beings you might want to work on your tolerance and compassion. Just saying.....get away from me does not seem like a well thought out strategy.

[Adam]

Dave? Sorry, had to have some fun waiting on my turkey to finish cooking...have a wonderful holiday


Well happy THANKSGIVING TO YOU TOO.

[z]

Nov 27, 2008 13:41:38 GMT -5 imbasile said:

Z says: Besides irrational bursts of hate and anger aimed to the 'threat' to the program, the program generates also a series of 'words' on random basis, such as imbasiles last example.

I observe daily very intense and heated debates around this exact topic over here where i live. Pattern is quite clear.

Idealists sticks to their vision and while defending it they get stripped out from anything that resembless even remotedly anything civilized. It is like somesort of primal being is summoned from these people when confronted with calm logic, reason and provable facts..

Could you elaborate? I am not able to follow your point

Point was, that in your 'moot' post, where everything is futile, nothing exists and the satan is ruling all ants... Just sounds very familiar. This is the other alternative course in debates if deluded hate is not an option.

It is conditionalized behaviour. Pattern is clear and it shows it self, usually at early stages, in 95 % of the conversations in this particular matter. Only difference between USA and europe is, that in europe, hate goes first (besides the usual ad hominems) to USA, then ordinary white male, then Salvador Dalian berserking about whatever (for ex. finns are 'guilty' for slavery, because we made the tar that was used in slaveboats.. I mean, how far can Pavlovs poodle fecth?), then cutism about futileness of everything.. So it goes.

However, here where I live, it has turned out that 'silent ones' - those conservatives who tends to their own business usually - are coming to the front. This scares the crap out from the idealists.
I hope, cross my fingers etc, that the same happens in USA a.s.a.p.

[akira]

the beautiful thing that makes me proud to be an American, and is a true credit to the country regardless of its mistakes (yes. read a history book, bring your moral compass) is how deeply its citizens care to stand against evil. In fact, even today our children are being socialized to recognize evil and to be ready to risk life and limb to fight it. Almost every American child is a video gamer in some capacity, and in most of those games the common theme is the Good Fight. the battle of good versus evil, freedom vs fascism or communism or totalitarianism. The basic values built into our media, at face value display fundamental ideas that the strong stand up for the weak to face those who would conquer or control them. This is what the youth enjoy as an escape or a pastime, its a bit of social training, true, but it also instills some good values. Just imagine how many would be ready to take up arms against the Universals and their totalitarianism.

Of course, being a fan of subterfuge, misdirection, lies both political and social, Machiavellianism, political/historical/social revisionism and other things i keep a look out for (mostly out of fear. I tend to study what makes me feel vulnerable.), it's hard not to see how much those things have been a part of politics, historically. It isn't something new, some Liberal nee Communist plot to control the world via lies and the media. It's rather ancient and I'm sure Machiavelli was only one of many who decided it would be beneficial to commit such things to paper. Force, overt force is expensive, and risky, and can be directly challenged or opposed. There is your enemy, stand to. The subtle forces have proven, for some, to be just as useful, if not moreso. I think i heard it said, strength is how you take power, subtlety is how you keep it. I'm paraphrasing i'm sure, but everything overt force is not, subtle force is. And such a thing can be used to subvert, or corrupt. In fact, it often is. You take a great strength and turn it into a weakness. You take someone's trust and turn it against them. You take their goals and use them as traps. You take their fear and use it as a weapon against them. Or they use that weapon against themselves.

Now why do I mention this? This, subversive subtle force? Because we're at it's mercy. Today, the Liberals that hate America are threatening to over run it, and turn the keys over to the Ghost of Stalin. The blacks are going to ruin everything, and the liberal elites will all learn the fiddle or take up expressive dance to prepare for Obama's gasoline(10% ethanol) dousing of Washington, and subsequent lighting of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, respectively. And the gays will marry their dogs. Or so, SOME on the right side of the table think. An then there are those who think the Conservatives want to use, sell, or industrialize every natural resource, so they can create gasoline powered, mahogany or ebony wood grand pianos the size of HumVees. With real ivory, specially selected from only the most endangered elephants in the world.(while supplies last) But wait, there's more. These pianos will be handcrafted by the slave labor of little brown children, chained to iron work tables in caves, forced to work 24 hour shifts so they can get their product out on time to be sold on the Free Market.

Now my humor may be lost on some, but I tried to go to the ridiculous extreme beliefs held by some on both sides. Trouble is, too many people believe even some of those things, when all of those things should be totally unbelievable. Meanwhile, we're losing our leases while Saudi royalty backed banks are sucking up American taxpayer dollars via a shady bailout deal. Trading firms built from European "old money", ultimately profiting said old money families are getting Federal help while your average Americans are losing their homes, losing their jobs, finding it tougher and tougher to support themselves and their families. Waking up at 4 AM to make it to work on time, only to find that their American dream was sold on the Free Market to the rest of the world. Where the so called American "haves" must focus on keeping their assets, and the "have nots" are scrambling to keep their asses. This divide and conquer game mentioned earlier, implied to have been started by communists to foment some kind of revolution. When the real revolting attacks on American life happen right under everyone's noses. Legally, voluntarily, directed by the subtle powers. Under divide and conquer the good on both sides suffer. Those who "have" two red dimes to rub together(but relatively wouldn't compare to true wealth of the subtle players), versus those who "have not". There is your enemy, stand to. Right? No way a house divided could have been manipulated into that. No way that power and money and property could ever be a greater motive than political ideology, right? Now I don't see any more commie-liberals running around, but I do see American power and American property and American prosperity being carried right out of the door and given to others. So who is it that is attacking America? Where did this hate for America come from. Certainly not from within. And who wielded the subtle powers so masterfully for centuries, while our country is only a little over 2 centuries old?

Those who lick their lips waiting for a Civil War should be ashamed. Anyone who thinks a culture war is a good thing should be ashamed. If you want change, work for it. Don't wait for it to be brought to you on a wave of blood and tears and the lost lives of others.

War is a fast vehicle for change. But I've been human for a long time and I've lost my taste for war. All war. Any war. Except one. Some wars have to be fought. Good can never have a truce with evil.

We don't eat from the same plate. But we sit at the same table. Whether you agree with me or not.

[akira28]

Why max, you say it like it's some kind of insult.

I was never one to play ditto or echo chamber. And I think the forum to be better for it. I take my lumps if i deserve them. And if I don't, I've still got tough skin. I've been keeping up with HQ for years you see...

[imbasile]

Cal - just saying that the fifth amendment, while addressing the issue(s) did not close the loopholes.
I just recently reread the constitution and the bill of rights with addendums and amendments. With what I know now of corruption, they put out pretty words but the backing of them, with the twists and loopholes just doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy. I know it's all we had but it does seem we could have done better. Maybe that's why it's called hind site.

Dave comment: Moot ( of little concern), I assume. Yea I understand the State of the State.
But until you understand that you will have to make a stand on what you value. All the crying on your part seems moot to me. And I have a different application for the word than you do.

Dave - I fully stand where I stand, and it's not "crying" it's factual observations on my part.
(when I got here and for years, I didn't know I needed to watch my back, it was never a thought that people would or could act in such a manner, that has been corrected and why the name "imbasile") and I may have volunteered for this gig, but I KNOW my contract stated that I did not have to take crap from anyone.

I have heard get thee behind me satan. However when dealing with you fellow human beings you might want to work on your tolerance and compassion. Just saying.....get away from me does not seem like a well thought out strategy.

I tolerate all that I can or will and I have great compassion, but that doesn't mean I have to live with you or be around you (you meaning everyone, not you personally)
Unless or until proof of trustworthiness is attained I prefer solitary

Perhaps it should have read "get away from me - or else??
Or act and treat me properly or I'll fix your problem??
Am I to tolerate "stupid"? Only from a distance.
Ignorance I can work with, stupid is in the corner by his/herself.
Compassion I have aplenty - I ache and cry for my people - but most seem to need the trial by fire that comes, the rest I cannot help either. I have power over only myself and that not much.

[imbasile]

Z says: Point was, that in your 'moot' post, where everything is futile, nothing exists and the satan is ruling all ants... Just sounds very familiar. This is the other alternative course in debates if deluded hate is not an option.

Thanks - my "moot" point got off to a bad start, but did create some interesting responses. I simply meant that to argue over liberal or conservative or ?? is to disguise the real operations of this planetary action.

Both are needed to keep us occupied while the real rulers of the planet are about their business. Divide and conquer

The futility of this planet is that nothing but your experience goes with you when you leave so your actions here will determine what if any experience you get to take with. The families, monies, possessions etc... are of no concern. Whether or not we live free, semi-free or slave, we have done this all before. Were you a slave in the past? Most likely. Were you free at some time? Probably. Have you lived lives before? It is stated. So all this is a culmination of your experiences and the last of them. The final test and gathering. Even scripture states that two thirds of the populace will die and most of the rest will be killed when the Lord returns just after that. It seems it is the preferred way off the planet. Cal says that 50% will be raptured and taken away in spaceships - perhaps this is correct but scripture says that those alive when Christ returns will be taken up to meet him in the clouds and then return to help restore order to the planet. If the clouds are spaceships then Jesus must be with them and then the taken should return here. Cal says some will but others will move to the new universe.
Regardless of who is right, this is the end of this time period - to argue over anything but what is needed for ascension is a trivial point.

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Now why do I mention this? This, subversive subtle force? Because we're at it's mercy. Today, the Liberals that hate America are threatening to over run it, and turn the keys over to the Ghost of Stalin. The blacks are going to ruin everything, and the liberal elites will all learn the fiddle or take up expressive dance to prepare for Obama's gasoline(10% ethanol) dousing of Washington, and subsequent lighting of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, respectively. And the gays will marry their dogs. Or so, SOME on the right side of the table think. An then there are those who think the Conservatives want to use, sell, or industrialize every natural resource, so they can create gasoline powered, mahogany or ebony wood grand pianos the size of HumVees. With real ivory, specially selected from only the most endangered elephants in the world.(while supplies last) But wait, there's more. These pianos will be handcrafted by the slave labor of little brown children, chained to iron work tables in caves, forced to work 24 hour shifts so they can get their product out on time to be sold on the Free Market.

Ok - here are a few lumps you deserve.

This masturbatory double talk serves only to hide a truth you'd prefer not to address and you don't give a rat's backside who pays as long as you're at the front of the line.

Not one day in your life have you not been positioned to suck off the public tit. The ideals of American Freedom are worthwhile to you as long as you have more freedom than others. All animals are equal but pigs are more equal. Your idea of freedom is measured in how much has been taken from others to put into your pocket. Your relationship with those not like you is parasitic and you view it as a constitutional entitlement because you're soooo special.

Your childhood, your education and your job all have been paid for from public resources and never have you given consideration to the many who were denied so you could feed off of them. Nor will you. You and Comrade Obama have much in common and the root of both of your lives is built upon lies and hypocrisy and a willingness to steal with both hands putting little back.

You'd say you are not a thief because the government does it for you and then hands the proceeds of that theft to you. How nice you can pretend to have clean hands.

You might want to review Father's Gospel.

Love resides not in the hearts of slavemasters.

There is a Shakesperian quote I'd offer as counsel and warning.

He who laughs last - laughs best.

This dance is only just beginning and you are shooting craps with your soul.

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Imbasile

I'll agree with you that the Constitution has been systematically whittled away and the only ones who don't see it are the ones who benefit from the corrupting of it.

Fortunately, Justice Thomas isn't one of them.

[Adam]

Dave - I fully stand where I stand, and it's not "crying" it's factual observations on my part.
(when I got here and for years, I didn't know I needed to watch my back, it was never a thought that people would or could act in such a manner, that has been corrected and why the name "imbasile") and I may have volunteered for this gig, but I KNOW my contract stated that I did not have to take crap from anyone.

Dave comment: OK big boy. Let me get this straight.

1. You know were you stand.
2. You watch your back.
3. You handle "imbasile" is to remind you to think.
4. You are on Earth - you may have volunteered?
5. Contract says that you don't have to take crap.

Imbasile, its seems to me you are a cry baby. Now hey, don't get mad. Get even. Man up and do good and be good. In your community. If you are as strong as you say, then I say good for you.



I tolerate all that I can or will and I have great compassion, but that doesn't mean I have to live with you or be around you (you meaning everyone, not you personally)
Unless or until proof of trustworthiness is attained I prefer solitary

Dave comment: Knock yourself out. Seems lonely to me. I prefer company and they don't have to prove anything unless engaged in an activity.


Perhaps it should have read "get away from me - or else??
Or act and treat me properly or I'll fix your problem??
Am I to tolerate "stupid"? Only from a distance.
Ignorance I can work with, stupid is in the corner by his/herself.
Compassion I have aplenty - I ache and cry for my people - but most seem to need the trial by fire that comes, the rest I cannot help either. I have power over only myself and that not much.

Dave comment: The limit of individual Spirit is for God to bind or not. Your problem is that you have not prayed in Spirit on a conscious level. Maybe and I hope on an unconscious level you have.

People who have prayed in Spirit ( ask and yea shall receive ) don't and you will not applies.

[b]Its not a head game. Its a know your spirit has the ability to do thing.[/b]

[akira28]

This masturbatory double talk serves only to hide a truth you'd prefer not to address and you don't give a rat's backside who pays as long as you're at the front of the line.

Now the problem I find when I write these large missives, is I give the reader a great many handles to grip if they wished to thump me in the head with my own words. I have come to expect it, and I have to accept it. One has few choices about such things when you're a big blowhard like I sometimes tend to be. And so. I take my lumps when I deserve them.

i have read your words. And re-read them. And I have read them again. And then I wondered if your words were even addressing anything I've written. You assume a great deal about me. And some I've shared with you, but none of that made it into your last post. I'm a parasite and a thief? Suckling at the public tit? Not once in my life have I not benefited from others, and what I have comes from what has been taken away from others?

I once asked you to ask Old One about me. To confirm your feelings the first time you let me have both barrels, because I couldn't believe some of the things you said about me, having known me as long as you had. And you told me it was because you could see me clearly whereas I may not have such clear vision concerning myself, or even more to the point I could be in denial. And that you didn't need to consult anyone else because you could see me as plain as day. This threw me into flux, because it was years ago when i was much younger and your words held much more weight with me than they do today. (And I don't take you lightly at all.) Was it a conversation on affirmative action? No doubt it was some political something or other that started it all. I had no small bit of self doubt thanks to that. Was I at all a good man? Did I really use people the way you said I did? But again you cause me to wonder if you know me at all. You can't tell the measure of a man from his feelings about politics. You don't like me criticizing your idea that Obama is going to take over America and the blacks are going to try to take over. Fine. But we can't even discuss it civilly. Again you test my thick skin. You aim below the belt, and tell me I am not a man but a parasite. That my entire existence is thanks to public assistance. That I have never once given back. And yet you know me not. Ok Cali. What have I stolen? From whom have I taken? And to whom am I due to give back? Who has gone without so that I may have what I have(which is not much, I assure you. And you'd know this if you knew me at all.)

I see myself this time, Cali. Warts and all. Not the idealistic but vulnerable kid I was 10 years ago. Now that I am the topic instead of what I spoke about, will we see ad hominem? So, if you have the stick, use it. I'll be right here sitting at the table. You and I believe a lot of the same things. An awful lot. But politics is where we break. Is that the be all, end all?

[imbasile]

Dave - I've done all I can for those around me, I'm just waiting for my end now.
Cry baby? We shall see...

Dave comment: The limit of individual Spirit is for God to bind or not. Your problem is that you have not prayed in Spirit on a conscious level. Maybe and I hope on an unconscious level you have.

People who have prayed in Spirit ( ask and yea shall receive ) don't and you will not applies.

I disagree - I pray always - I keep a running conversation going at all times with Father.
As far as "ask and you shall receive" this is not true, at least not in my experience.
You can ask all you want - you will receive what you are supposed to have - if the two are the same then it would seem that this comment is true but it is only the synchronicity of the thoughts at that time. Else would I be a rich man on my own island living peacefully with good health.

Apparently there are some limits to asking and receiving as with everything in this life.