Scientology

[trebor57]

Cal, I've been doing a little research on Scientology lately because of all the news coverage recently. It turns out that the founder L. Ron Hubbard was a huge fan of Crowley. He and his associate were supposedly creating a moonchild back in the late 40's (their version of the anti-christ) attempting to impress Crowley who more or less scoffed at their actions. Hubbard was so obsessed with Crowley that he saw himself as the heir to his"throne", declaring himself the self appointed heir at the time of his death and starting the cult known as scientology the day after Crowley's death. From what I've gathered they worship an alien named Xenu and extract huge sums of money from their constituents in exchange for their teachings, secrets and higher levels. They also have no belief in God and seem to have adopted Crowley's "do what thou wilt" philosophy while they begin a brainwashing process with their members from the start. Add to this that nut job Tom Cruise as one of their prominent members and you have great fodder for the media. I'm seeing this as some kind of neo-satanist cult, I'd love to hear you're thoughts and take on the orginization.

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Scientology is a technical 'legal' religion created as such to afford it some freedoms from government. There is not faith or service to God involved. It is centered to the research of BF Skinner and operant conditioning. Skinner was the fellow who studied rat's running mazes.

This organization is insidious in the worst of ways. While you may see the Cruise or Travolta standing forth, what you don't see are the thousands that are imbedded into all levels of the government and answering to Scientology or the agenda that's attached to it.

[cwb2007]

A good way to judge a scam is by the amount of money they ask or demand you give them in exchange for their 'services'. A good church will never require money in exchange to hear the sermon, they allow people to make donations if they wish though. Scientology drains its followers of their money and in exchange hypnotizes them into cult like belief. When compared to the actions of Jesus, who never asked a dime in return for his help, these people are leeches.

[ophello]

is there anyone out there who has genuinely benefitted from scientology?

is it valid in any sense of the word? do dianetics work?

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Op

Does it work for what?

Pavlov's dogs were taught to salivate at the ringing of a bell. Operant Conditioning.

Child molesters aren't born - they are made - operant conditioning.

The US Marines indoctrinate and condition their soldiers - they call it training.

The pivotal point is the 'intent' of the conditioning. There's good and bad and whether 'it' works or not is solely dependant upon the intents of those giving the conditioning and that of the recepient. No one forces people into scientology.

Each of us was raised 'and conditioned' by parents. Sometimes well - and other times not so well. People can (with difficulty) recondition themselves or they can pay scientology to give them electric shocks.

The real question here isn't 'doesn't it work' but rather 'is it worth the price'. Trading one conditioning for another.

Is it better for people to try and live good lives as a matter of 'spirit' or should such things be controlled by for fee conditioning?

The basis of dianetics is that you are a mindless animal to be trained not to crap on the floor.

Caligastia

[ophello]

I know the more important issue here is "should you have to pay" and I believe that NO, scientology is clearly not worthy of my money.

I still want to know: do dianetics work? Has scientology actually helped anyone?

[Abdiel]

Ask Lisa McPherson

The Un-Funny TRUTH about Scientology

BBC Panorama documentary:

• PANORAMA SCIENTOLOGY AND ME PART ONE OF FOUR
  
• PANORAMA : SCIENTOLOGY AND ME PART TWO OF FOUR
  
• PANORAMA : SCIENTOLOGY AND ME PART THREE OF FOUR
  
• PANORAMA : SCIENTOLOGY AND ME PART FOUR OF FOUR
  

More information about Scientology

Abdiel.

[ophello]

I know about Lisa McPherson. I'm pretty sure that most scientologists dont go through that.

[Abdiel]

Hand them 15,000 USD, and find out.

It's an expensive russian roulette, but you seem eager to try.

Abdiel.

[ophello]

Um, what about my message says Im eager to pay money for that which I already have: a group of wise friends who know right from wrong and counsel me on my most deep struggles in life? =)

You people are the real deal. I dont need scientology! Cal and the advens and everyone here has done more to bolster my sense of logic, reason, and understanding of the value of experience.

I still want to know: for the people who are dumb enough to pay, does it actually do what it says it will do?

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Op

Your question WAS answered.

If you are mindless animal that would benefit from conditioning
Scientology is for you.

I trained my dog not to crap in the house - the same could be done for you.

Caligastia

[ophello]

It was answered sarcastically, without substance.

Whats wrong with wanting to know?

[Abdiel]

I guess all depends on your selfimage.

'I'm a human pet'
Goth and pet girlfriend banned from bus

Abdiel.

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

The sarcasim is in your mind only - I was being serious

[akira28]

if you're so inclined, do a google search on the father of modern american rocketry, or so he is called, Jack Parsons. The fellow NASA's famous JPL lab is unofficialy named after.. well now they call it Jet Propulsion Labs. He's the unnamed associate of Mr. Crowley who was actually in charge of all the OTO goings on out there in California at the time. Long story short, Mr. Hubbard gained this man's confidence, much to the consternation of one Mr. Crowley, gained position in his local organization, and proceeded to take him for everything he had. All the money, the boats, and the girl, the proposed Red haired woman of Babylon who was to be the embodiment of the 'Return'. After this, he received a letter from Mr. Crowley that said something to the effects of, "I told you so, stupid. The man was a sham. You had such great promise, why didn't you listen?" While they were trying to conjure up the whore of Babylon, Hubbard was seducing the 'whore' behind Parson's back, playing games with the organization's resources, and making up the so called magick rituals on the fly. The only one who was fooled was Mr. Parsons, apparently. After his very public humiliation, and being cut off from Crowley and the OTO, he devoted his life to science, but soon died in a tragic lab explosion.

Hubbard on the other hand lost one boat, kept another, eluded the law, and parlayed all the gains into his private organization based on the science of psychology.(Which sold pamplets and documents that eventually became what we know as Dianetics today. He also tried selling his electrical resistance\potentiometer 'E-meter' flim-flam device as a miraculous scientific cure-all, using the power of electricity. The man used ignorance as a tool. Sucessfully.) When he discovered that he could save a great deal of money in taxes, and in turn garner some forms of federal protection, he immediately applied to have his group declared a religious organization under the name "Scientology". His Sea Organization members, the true believers, sign contracts promising their souls for service of millions of years.(!)

If you were out on the road with a flat tire, I ask you, would you accept help from this man? If on the surface, scientology seems to have substance, realize that the best way to have someone swallow a lie is to sandwich it between two truths. the first premise, that we are responsible for our own actions is true. Then the 2nd, that we can correct our mistakes through direct action, with good results is also undeniably true. Between these two truths, in scientology's case you will find lunch meat unfit for anyone's consumption. I'd ask you not to take a bite, even if the chef DID remove the crust just like you like it.