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Post by e-Male on Oct 25, 2008 17:01:33 GMT -5
I understand why people want to join the army, air force or navy. I've never understood why anyone would want to be a marine. I can only speak for myself about why anyone would want to be a Marine. Were I to guess about general reasoning, I'd say it probably has to do with people who have the attitude that you've expressed in the forum: " yea, though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I will fear no evil, for I'm the baddest SOB in the Valley". But that certainly wasn't my case.
Ripley's Believe It or Not story time.
I finished college (barely) and was so weak, depressive, insecure, indecisive, spineless -- afraid of everything (future, people, you name it), that I realized I couldn't cope with life that way. But I had already failed at quitting life (an OD attempt with a prescription drug that apparently my body liked despite the quantity), and was afraid of making a real botch of that on another try. I knew I had to grow up and get it together.
Being very active in the Scouts through my youth, I had a strong patriotic streak. I actually felt bad about having a student deferment from the Viet Nam draft. (One of the very few things I ever won in life was the draft lottery. My number was 3.) I've never known whether or not I would have still been subject to involuntary draft after graduation, since I decided to join the military.
After making inquiries with all the different branch's recruiters, I had the revelation that joining the Marines would serve to address my other problem -- my lack of self-assurance/-dignity/-control/-discipline/-respect/etc. So I chose to take a "make it or break it" route in the hopes that what didn't kill me would make me stronger.
And it did.
;D
I guarantee it's the same exact AFEES testing as for all the other services. No other testing required -- simply because the applicant is volunteering for Uncle Sam's Misguided Children. That alone is all the "test" needed.  Goofy is as goofy does.
/e |
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Post by Caligastia Lanonandek on Oct 25, 2008 19:17:25 GMT -5
I had a recruiter come into my business and (thinking I was a clerk) attempted to tell me how the army would make a man out of me. I asked him how much the gig paid. He said a hundred something a month. I informed him that I made that much in a day. As the shock left his face, he slithered out of the store.
The last person on earth I'd believe anything from is a recruiter. Greater credibility rests with a used car salesman.
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Post by e-Male on Oct 26, 2008 16:44:21 GMT -5
$100 a month interfered with you becoming a man?  You were just stopped by petty greed! Besides, that would have simply been the starting pay for slick-sleeve Privates. Why, in a few short years, by the time I made Sergeant (E-5), I think I was raking in a little over $ 600 a month. Was I ever on Easy Street.  But then again, military living expenses tend to be minimal. Free room and board, full healthcare, full complement of "company-provided" work tools for both jobs (Marines are first and foremost riflemen, secondarily other things, like electronic systems techs). About the only other significant expenses were uniforms and personal vehicles when permitted. The rest was disposable income for savings or entertainment. And the food was always plentiful and terrific. The bases I was stationed at won awards. Far from the stereotypical mess halls. Well, except for the 3 month deployment to Korea. But even the K-rats were pretty good.  All-in-all, I had a terrific time on active duty. The recruiters didn't lie about anything. Mmmm, well, they did leave out a few incidental facts... mostly about Boot Camp.  My Senior Drill Instructor got relieved of duty. His self-professed hero was SSgt McKeon. [Look up Ribbon Creek, Parris Island if you're unfamiliar with that story.] Boot camp was ... a challenge. But, to this day, I still have a lot of respect for my Sr. DI, SSgt Tideman. He may have been harsh and drawn outside the lines, yet I believe he did have our best interests in mind, trying to train us for complete discipline: unflinching effort, unfailing cooperative teamwork, unhesitating response to orders, unflagging loyalty to each other, our NCOs and officers, the Corps, and our country. Because without those attitudes deeply ingrained, combat situations can lead to more battle losses. He was harsh, but fair, and not once did he put us through anything that he didn't participate in, excepting of course, punishments. I don't think you'll find too many former-active-duty Marines (no such thing as an " ex-Marine") who are anything but proud and glad for their time in the Corps. I'm certainly glad I joined. But also I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. /e |
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Post by imbasile on Oct 26, 2008 18:38:28 GMT -5
E - on the other hand, I always thought that if everyone from the age of 17-20 were to be a "marine" then all the stupid that the young people of today think they can (and do) get away with would not even enter the picture. It's not for everyone because everyone doesn't want to do the things that they desperately need to be doing. It will change your mind on many of the immaturity problems you might have grown up with.
It's not the best (probably the worst) for the spiritual side of life, but it gives a great rock for a background to stand where you stand when you get to the spirit side.
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Post by e-Male on Oct 27, 2008 23:34:16 GMT -5
Imbasile,
I must fervently disagree with you. Except on your point about that being probably the worst for spiritual growth.
One thing I know: change -- particularly with regards to growth -- only comes from within. Free will is why.
No amount of coercion can do anything but create fear and loathing and, ultimately, rebellion. Your idea of non-voluntary service is nothing but coercion, however high-mindedly it may be presented.
I don't recall too many draftees being thrilled with their lot, even if they were lucky enough to be REMFs. Just wasn't part of their plans for their life.
Learning comes from free acceptance. Otherwise, at best you've only created Pavlovian conditioned responses. Nothing truly learned.
I would opine instead that society should change back to rid itself of the culture of extended adolescence. "Today you are a man" with the accompanying responsibility for the consequences of your decisions.
/e
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Post by Caligastia Lanonandek on Oct 28, 2008 13:45:48 GMT -5
E-Male
By the time the recruiter hit me, I was 21 - owned a going business with 10 employees - and was situating my life the way I wanted it. Dropping it to go into the mil - wasn't in the top 100 things I wanted to do.
Also, there is one other thing. By the time this fellow got around to me, Nam had been going on for 5 years. Every person I spoke to that came back said the same thing - bogus deal.
History records their comments were right.
My great respect for those who serve is matched only by my extreme contempt for the politicans who govern them.
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Post by hollis on Oct 28, 2008 16:59:59 GMT -5
On compulsory service:
The soldiers that I led in the Army wanted to be there. Those that didn't want to be there because they made a bad decision or because they just genuinely sucked either shaped up or got drummed out. The guys that did want to the job that they had signed up for were probably the greatest people I've ever met, worked with, or worked for.
If the attitude of young Americans was different, and if they had a mindset of doing something for their country instead of for themselves, then a draft would work. But as it stands, most of the people my age are selfish losers happy to see poor people serve their country because they could afford few other options.
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Post by e-Male on Oct 28, 2008 19:49:07 GMT -5
Hollis,
I disagree with you as fervently as I disagree with Imbasile, and for the identical reason.
You obviously served after the compulsory draft ended. I served during the transition. But the USMC was then as it always has been, almost completely volunteers. Volunteers, by the very fact of their volunteerism, are doing so of their own free will.
It's a myth that the military is mostly composed of poor people and of minorities. Look up the stats, published on several military and government sites.
People who have an inclination to join the military do so. People who don't, don't. Compulsion doesn't improve anything. And hoping for a culture of indoctrinated super-patriotic youth like the Communist countries where everyone must serve is anathema to everything this country should stand for.
Both you and Imbasile don't seem to understand what problem you're trying to solve, and are proposing counter-productive ideas.
As Dennis Miller says, "that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong".
Except I'm not. You are. ;D
/e
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Post by Caligastia Lanonandek on Oct 28, 2008 21:05:23 GMT -5
A good argument against conscription is found in the history of Rome (most of whom were uneducated draftees).
When a unit didn't perform well, the commanders would like them up and kill every 10th man.
The practice was called 'decimation', and it served to inspire the others.
During WWII both Ike and Patton agreed that 40% of the army was dead weight. Patton went among the men to 'kick asses' to get the motivation factor going. The men were more afraid of him than of the Germans. To be sure, he was an unpopular SOB, but his men respected him regardless and the 3rd Army performed admirably.
In a volunteer army - these things don't come into play.
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Goofy is as goofy does.
You were just stopped by petty greed! 
