The New McCarthyism

[hollis]

After watching Michele Bachmann's rant about anti-Americanism in the Congress and the need for hearings to smoke out the anti-Americans, I just about puked. I realize that nearly every leader in this country isn't standing up and doing right by the constitution (her included), but a McCarthyite rant like that just fuels the divisiveness that is all of this country. Now we face not just Irish Americans, African Americans, Gay Americans and Jehovah's Witness Americans, but we have to think about whether or not to put the word "anti" before that "American." Palin is dancing the same jig about anti-Americanism and she can't even control her own household when it comes to opinions about keeping the Union together. This "anti" Americanism is just silly. Bachmann ought to be gagged and Palin ought to watch her damn mouth.

[mar10]

H,
Pull yer head out the the dark orifice that it is currently deeply wedged into. Your country is about to come apart at the seams, and it is exactly BECAUSE of the anti-american commie left. Witnessed by the MARXIST currently running for office. Don't think it's true? then go and look at what the self proclaimed American Communist organizations are saying about these elections - "Communism's time has come". "We have a new leader in Obama".

These groups have infiltrated into LAW, ACADEMIA, MEDIA, and POLITICS. This is the enemy within. Your election is nothing less than a contest between Freedom and Economic & Cultural Slavery. This is your battle between good and evil my friend, and the closest you have come to civil war since Whitey went to war to end slavery. The last time the good guys won. Not so sure about this time, because it will start with the bad guys being put in charge of the country.

I can't impart on you the essential critical urgency of stopping the anti-americans in your country. My fear is that this chick's rant (that you rail against), does not come soon enough, nor is it being said by nearly enough people. America is asleep, and mostly unaware that EVIL is at the DOOR. WAKE UP, or you are going to loose your freakin country.

[hollis]

The hate and fear the underlies that McCarthyite message is apparent enough to me. The left is f---ed up for sure, but the right does not need to divide people up any further or pull at the seams any harder.

[mar10]

H,
By your words, sir, you are part of the problem. Firstly, instead of playing the race card, you immediately reach for the hate and fear card. Since when is pointing at danger (real, in your face, lose your freedom kind of danger) and yelling DANGER, called hate. Since the left has run out of a logical response. If I point out the truth, then I hate - that is your logic. There is an 8000 lb communist grizzley bear sitting in your living room, and if anyone points out the truth of it, they are divisive and hatemongers.

The division has already occured, and most people don't even know why communism is so evil (thanks to your public school system). You would rather be politically correct and refuse to make a judgement call, than take a stand and call evil for what it is. You are part of the problem, because you are the "useful idiots" the left uses to pretend that the problem does not exist.

Communism and Americanism are mutually exclusive. One is slavery and the other is freedom. Where exactly in that mix do you want to pretend there is common ground? Your country is fighting a cultural and economic war, and only the hard left is aware that they are in it. THEY KNOW - YOU DON'T. If you don't wake up you will lose.

I also expect you don't know the first thing about Senator Joe McCarthy. He was mostly right. The US was (and is) FULL of communists that hate freedom, hate capitalism, love government force, hate reward for personal achievement, hate private property. You need to read a bit more - look up BLACKLISTED: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarty. I expect you use the phrase McCarthyism with equal frequency and inverted truth as the phrase Swiftboating.

More Government is not going to solve your problems Hollis. Government is the problem. And the LEFT is all about more government control of your life. YOU are the best person to decide what is best for your life, and where your money should be spent. Not government. Did you learn nothing by watching Venezuela slide into Marxist Fascism? Do you not learn anything by watching Cubans risking their lives in rubber boats on the open ocean to get a chance at freedom? There is no middle ground with these two sides in America that you speak about.
You are on one side or the other, and if you refuse to acknowledge the enemy, then he will eat your lunch and soul.

The Marxist bear is in your living room. Either get eaten and lose your country, or recognize the eminent danger - call it what it is, and fight it. Marxism has only killed 100 million people in the last century - let's give is another chance. Right - you go first.

[rob]

Hollis, I don't suppose it matters to you that McCarthy was right?

It's true, his methods were un-American and unjust and he ended up discredited for that. The fact remains that when it comes to the meat of the matter...he was absolutely right.

After the USSR collapsed and the intelligence archives opened up, it turned out Soviets had indeed infiltrated the highest levels of the federal government, Hollywood, and academia - and had been passing along all kinds of secrets - nuclear, military, political and otherwise - since at least the 1930s.

Do a google search for Project Venona and you will learn more about that.

For what its worth, the decryptions show that Julius Rosenberg was guilty as charged and rightly executed. The evidence against Ethel was less convincing.

Now, if you ask me, the REAL damage McCarthy did to public discussion of these matters lies in the fact that from that point on, any opposition of communism would be greeted by charges of "red-baiting" and most people leave it alone lest somebody throw the "McCarthyite" name at them. McCarthyite has to rank up there with "racist" or "homophobe" in the list of things most decent people don't want to be called.

Me - I'm not afraid of names.

[hollis]

Rob:

First off: yup, McCarthy was right. I'll stop using the term McCarthyite.

Second off is the question about whether Bachmann was actually calling the "unamerican people" communists or not. I don't really think so. I think she is just trying to drive another wedge into a shattered country.

[hollis]

Marten, you drew a lot of conclusions out of thin air and put a lot of words in mouth.

Firstly, instead of playing the race card, you immediately reach for the hate and fear card.

What race card? Where is race involved in this? When did I think of playing it?

Since when is pointing at danger (real, in your face, lose your freedom kind of danger) and yelling DANGER, called hate.

It isn't called hate. When it is in the context of Bachmann's rant, I think it is called fearmongering.

If I point out the truth, then I hate - that is your logic.

Nope, my logic is that if you buy into that kind of BS wholesale, then you are being preyed upon for your fear. Divide and conquer, right? Set the "real" Americans against the "fake" Americans, or the blacks against the whites, or the Microsoft executives against the Luddites, and you will thrive while they fight it out. It is a very old play, one that Cal points out a lot. See above.

The division has already occured, and most people don't even know why communism is so evil (thanks to your public school system).

Agreed, division has already occurred. But where in any of this was I talking about the public school system?

You are part of the problem, because you are the "useful idiots" the left uses to pretend that the problem does not exist.

By what presumption do you call me an idiot? By the fact that I choose not to be afraid?

Where exactly in that mix do you want to pretend there is common ground?

Nowhere. This is no common ground between Communism and America. It doesn't work anywhere and it wouldn't work here especially.

Your country is fighting a cultural and economic war, and only the hard left is aware that they are in it.

This is hilariously misstated. Clearly the hard right is fully aware of the cultural clash, since it was a conservative who made the comments that you are now discussing!

More Government is not going to solve your problems Hollis. Government is the problem.

I have no idea where you came up with the idea that I dig big government. More words in my mouth.

Did you learn nothing by watching Venezuela slide into Marxist Fascism? Do you not learn anything by watching Cubans risking their lives in rubber boats on the open ocean to get a chance at freedom?

You speak to me like I have a learning disability. I did learn something from each of those incidents. That marxism and communism don't work anywhere and are nothing to be aspired to in the United States.

Herein you miss the very mark of what I was trying to say, and what I failed to elaborate upon: I do not think that Bachmann meant "communist" when she said "anti-American." I think that many people on both sides of political discourse have developed a pathetic tendency to demonize each other into being not of the same genus and species. That sort of thing is useless. Government will either solve its problems itself (it likely won't) or the people will solve it for them. Unnecessarily dividing people into further groups only serves to hamper the progress of the United States towards fixing what ails her.

[rob]

Second off is the question about whether Bachmann was actually calling the "unamerican people" communists or not. I don't really think so. I think she is just trying to drive another wedge into a shattered country.

All I have to go on is your description here. I didn't hear what she said and you didn't give us a source or a quote, so I couldn't say.

By the way, what exactly did Palin say that's got you so bothered?

[hollis]

I can see the writing on the wall so I will apologize for the sourcing from the beginning. Also, apologies for the poor description and not writing my source from the get-go. Bachmann was on Hardball on Friday. Youtube has quite a few different versions of the same interview.

Palin's stump speeches routinely refer to "real Americans" and the "heartland," those folks that join the Army and serve our country. Her comments discount anyone in a larger city as un-American and seem to imply that no one from big cities joins up to serve their country. I did, I'm from a big city, and almost all of my soldiers when I was in the Army were from cities larger than 250,000. It irks me that she can talk out of two sides of her mouth about good and real Americans when her husband was in the AIP.

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Hollis the Communist Methodology was solid in concept.

1. Divide and Conquer.

Thru their operatives in the democrat part, they successfully divided us into hypenated Amercians, black, white etc. Then the subdivided by gender and sexual preference.

2. Reward the minority groups in the equation at the expense of the majority groups for the purpose of building voting constituancies minority groups. This was cloaked as civil rights.
Note how many new 'rights' have evolved in the last 30 years.
Now you have a 'right' not to hear the word God. Even though someone else has a right to say it (but only if its whispered someplace noone else would hear it).

3. Kill God replacing Him with THE STATE.

Sometime back on HQ, I made the comment that the communists were making their move at taking over the country. Here we are.

Various police departments are making plans for riots on and after election day. Businesses are not hiring people because 'if' Obama gets elected, they'll have to fire them anyway as they've now become unaffordable. Colorado has instituted a hiring freeze in anticipation of less revenues.

Not mentioned is the incremental plan to nationalize primary industries energy, food, housing, health care and transportation.

That which has not already been nationalized is being controlled via various legislations. Typically, they burden an industry with so much regulation - it puts them out of business and the gov steps in and nationalizes. ie: the railroads and Amtrak. Naturally, they never operate at a profit and can't even the run the post office profitably AND they have a monopoly on it.

Privately held anything is a sin under Communist dogma.

On the off chance that Obama does win the election, I'll be at Walmart the next day stocking up on hollow points (while I still can).

You'll also see a version of the secret police (gestapo) instituted for shutting up anyone who speaks out against him. Look what they did to Joe the Plumber - despicable.

One of Obama's phone canvessers called a person who told them it would be a cold day in hell before she voted for him. The Obama camp reported this as a death threat and the next day the secret service was at her door. Heil Obama.

We should have let Patton take out the Russians when he wanted to.

[mar10]

H,
Hate and Race. As I said, you didn’t play the race card, but you did play the Hate and Fear card. Still, a typical leftist play. When leftists do not like what is being said, true or not, and they don’t have a logical argument, they call RACE, or HATE, or FEAR. In your case, when confronted by the FACT that there really are ANTI-AMERICANS in your country actively working to destroy the country, AND a whole mess of useful idiots that don’t see the danger and are helping – YOU say HATE and FEAR (fearmongering).
This is false, and shows that YOU ARE IN DENIAL of the real problem. This attitude is the same as Chamberlain’s “There will be peace in our time”. NO, there will not. He refused to see the enemy for what it was, and so do you.

On the issue of recognizing the enemy within, YES, you do have a learning disability.
“I think that many people on both sides of political discourse have developed a pathetic tendency to demonize each other . . . Unnecessarily dividing people into further groups only serves to hamper the progress of the United States towards fixing what ails her.”
You refuse to recognize that one of these groups is the enemy. And there are millions of useful idiots that also don’t recognize the enemy and are helping them. You have been lulled into a false equivalency argument – these are all just good old Americans that have different points of view. They all just have the good of the country at heart, and their politics are different. NOPE. This is no longer true. The left is the ENEMY. STOP helping them by minimizing the danger.

I go back to the BEAR in your living room. I see the bear. You don’t see the bear. In this example, you sit there and say “That’s not a bear, that’s just an American dog. He’s not a threat.” Well, Hollis, this bear is real. And it has millions of fleas that are being taken for a ride. And it is going to rip your house apart.
Don’t like the fea analogy? That is how government treats people under communism/socialism. And if the fleas are helping the bear, they are useful idiots – unaware of being used and ignorant of the true danger. If you fit in this group, then the shoe fits. Sorry. That is the truth.

This is hilariously misstated. Clearly the hard right is fully aware of the cultural clash, since it was a conservative who made the comments that you are now discussing! YOU miss the point. The moderate left, YOU, are the only ones in the mix that don’t see the enemy for what they are. The Democratic party is now completely run by the HARD left. But they don’t want you to know this. They have fooled many, not just you, into thinking they are an American party still. They are not. THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES, HOLLIS.

Vote for the Democrats and you are going to get the HARD left running the country. OBAMA is a Marxist. Nancy Pelosi is a Marxist. Harry Reid is a Marxist. Howard Dean is a Marxist. Acorn is Marxist. Obama wants to confiscate the earning of Joe the Plumber, “so that those behind you can have the same opportunities . . . . wealth is good to spread around.” Marxist. It is not the job of the government to spread the wealth around. More welfare. More government. More economically dependent slaves. More inner city ghettos. More single mothers on food stamps. More fatherless youths following strong males in gangs. Less wealth being created. Less to go around. Shortages of everything in your life, including hope.

[rob]

I can see the writing on the wall so I will apologize for the sourcing from the beginning. Also, apologies for the poor description and not writing my source from the get-go. Bachmann was on Hardball on Friday. Youtube has quite a few different versions of the same interview.

Palin's stump speeches routinely refer to "real Americans" and the "heartland," those folks that join the Army and serve our country. Her comments discount anyone in a larger city as un-American and seem to imply that no one from big cities joins up to serve their country. I did, I'm from a big city, and almost all of my soldiers when I was in the Army were from cities larger than 250,000. It irks me that she can talk out of two sides of her mouth about good and real Americans when her husband was in the AIP.

OK, Hardball on youtube. I'll check that out and see what she says.

As for big city/ small town so what? Palin calls Alaskans and "flyover" residents "Real Americans." So what? Is it untrue? Does that necessarily mean that city slickers AREN'T real Americans? Thanks for your service, but what difference does it make?

And here we go with the AIP. When all else fails, call her a secessionist. One might almost call that tactic "McCarthyite". I'm tempted to ask you what you know about the Alaskan Independence Party. I'm pretty sure the answer is you know what you saw on Hardball and Keith Olbermann. (I wonder if Chris' leg was tingling during the Bachmann interview?)

Hollis, stop believing everything you see on Hardball. Tingling of the extremities is one of the warning signs of a stroke. Now we're on my home turf. I live in Alaska. I know what the AIP is and what it isn't. Here's the truthful version.

In 1973, Joe Vogler (acknowledged as sort of the founding father of AIP) did in fact circulate a petition seeking to re-visit the 1959 statehood vote, claiming it was invalid. He never succeeded with that, but he did also say several anti-American things with which I do not agree.

Such as ""I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."

And "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won't be buried under their damn flag. I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."

It bears mentioning that there is a strong secessionist sentiment among the people in Alaska. For the record, I sympathize with them, but I will never be one of them. I believe in the Constitution and the system of government it proscribes.

There is a fringe element within AIP which tried to carry this on further into the mid-80's, but it never went anywhere. Vogler disappeared under 'suspicious' circumstances in 1993.

But even before that, beginning in the late 80's, AIP candidates and members have DISAPPROVED of any re-visitation of the statehood vote. In other words, the AIP is NOT secessionist and secession is not part of their platform, which I will demonstrate in a moment.

As for Mr. Palin, on September 2, 2008, the Associated Press reported that Todd Palin had registered as a member of the Alaskan Independence Party in 1995 until 2006 (which you'll agree comes AFTER the late '80s); although it has been reported that he no longer is registered as a member of the party,and having registered as "undeclared" since 2006, there is no clear evidence that the Palins continue to have a connection wth the AIP. Sarah Palin was never a member of the Alaska Independence Party, however she has addressed the party at their convention, and has been a member of the Republican Party since 1982.

Here is the AIP's platform...I agree with most items here. You tell me where the "secessionism" is in here.

akip.org/platform.html

Platform and Goal
of the
Alaskan Independence Party



Preamble
We affirm that all political power is inherent in the people; that all government originates with the people, is founded on their will only, is instituted to protect the rights of the individual; that all persons have a natural right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the enjoyment of the rewards of their own industry; that all persons are equal and entitled to equal protection under the law. We stand on a firm constitutional foundation.
Platform
We pledge to exert our best efforts to accomplish the following:

To effect full compliance with the constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Alaska.

To support and defend States' Rights, Individual Rights, Property Rights, and the Equal Footing Doctrine as guaranteed by the constitutions of the United States of America and the state of Alaska.

To advocate the convening of a State Constitutional Convention at the constitutionally designated 10 year interval.

To reinforce the unalienable rights endowed by our Creator to Alaska law, by eliminating the use of the word "privilege" in the Alaska statutes.

To amend the Constitution of the State of Alaska so as to re-establish the rights of all Alaskan residents to entry upon all public lands within the state, and to acquire private property interest there in, under fair and reasonable conditions. Such property interest shall include surface and sub-surface patent.

To foster a constitutional amendment abolishing and prohibiting all property taxes.

To seek the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution.

To prohibit all bureaucratic regulations and judicial rulings purporting to have the effect of law, except that which shall be approved by the elected legislature.

To preserve and protect the Alaska Permanent Fund, Permanent fund earnings, earnings reserve fund and individual Permanent Fund Dividends.

To provide for the direct popular election of the attorney general, all judges, and magistrates.

To provide for the development of unrestricted, statewide, surface transportation and utility corridors as needed by the public or any individual.

To affirm and assert every possible right-of-way established under R.S. 2477 of July 26, 1866, before its repeal by the Federal Land Management Policy Act of October 21, 1976.

To support the right of the individual to keep and bear arms.

To support the complete abolition of the concept of sovereign or governmental immunity, so as to restore accountability for public servants.

To support the rights of parents to privately or home school their children.

To support the privatization of government services.

To oppose the borrowing of money by government for any purposes other than for capital improvements.

To strengthen the traditional family and support individual accountability without government interference or regulation.

To support the right of jurors to judge the law as well as the facts, according to their conscience.

To support "Jobs for Alaskans...First!"



Confirmed by Statewide Convention
Fairbanks, Alaska 2008
All other copies are void

[rob]

Putting the AIP aside, Marten posted a list of dozens of (let's be generous here) UNSAVORY associates and supporters of Obama including but not limited to open Communists, foreign dictators, foreign and domestic terrorists and criminals. I've yet to see you address those problems.

So Todd Palin was a member of a political party that at one time flirted with secession. He joined several years after they dropped secession as an issue. And that bothers you. Fair enough. It's worth noting that Todd Palin is not running for any office.

One would think you'd also be bothered by Obama being the PRESIENTIAL NOMINEE pf the Democrats, of a political party that once successfully DID secede from the Union from 1861 to 1865 in direct response to the election of Abraham Lincoln, the party of slavery and Jim Crow, and is currently the party of huge omnipotent communist style government. No problems there, huh?

I've seen the Bachmann interview now and I understand why you didn't want to post her exact words here. "Come on baby, let's do the twist." You don't make a great spin doctor Hollis. I noticed that it was Matthews who brought up the term anti-American and kept hammering it until he got Bachmann to say it too. I've worked in the news media myself - it's a tactic, a trap. The interviewer keeps using the characterization until the term becomes part of the interviewee's answer. The media SHOULD take a look at who's doing what in Congress. These were fair comments and fair questions for Bachmann to bring up.

How many people does Todd Palin know who bombed the Pentagon? I'm not aware of any. With all the Obama operatives scouring Alaska right now for dirt on the Palins you can rest assured we'd know about them if they existed. If domestic terrorism isn't ANTI-American I don't know what is. Liberals like Pelosi and Reid and Michelle Obama (as long as you brought the spouses into this) are constantly putting down and apologizing for America. ANTI-America. So was Obama BEFORE he was the nominee. Now that he needs actual American votes, and not just liberal votes from his liberal district in Illinois he's Captain America? ANTI-America. Communism. ANTI-America. "Reverse" Racism. ANTI-America.