Sniff Test

[aften]

Kay Griggs Interview - The White House, The Military and Ritual Sex Abuse:
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Kay Griggs was a Southern divorcee who rented a room to Marine Corps colonel George Griggs in the late 1980s. She was impressed by his clipped manner, his education, his

good looks. Two months later she married him. What she found out about world affairs as George Griggs' wife was astounding.

Colonel Griggs was a Marine Corps Chief of Staff, as well as head of NATO's Psychological Operations. He was also, his wife realized, entirely mind-controlled. Kay, a

self-declared Christian, became privy to the real workings of the United States military, leadership training, drug-running and weapons sales, and the secret worldwide camps

that train professional assassins.

These interviews with Pastor Rick Strawcutter of Adrian, Michigan were conducted in 1998, before September 11th
and the installation of U.S. President George W. Bush.
Kay Griggs' report of world events and the power elite paints a picture that begins to explain the hows and whys of our current global scenario.


Quotes from Kay Griggs:


"They took with them the most perverted aspects of Nazi Germany and brought them
over to the United States."

"They get rid of the good guys. The Marine Corps are the assassins for the Mob. The military is run by the Mob. The military IS the Mob."

"He told me what they did. They nurture--they cultivate--the sons of prominent families. They're called "rising stars." They rope them in. Then they "turn" them."



To order the full 8 hours visit www.kaygriggstalks.com

[aften]

very good Kay Griggs video

www.indybay.org/newsitems/2005/03/28/17300681.php

[hollis]

Sounds like an electronic Manchurian Candidate.

[aften]

hollis Barack is a Manchurian Candidate, those that follow him are deluded Manchurian.

If one does not seek the proof and the truth....deluded Manchurian is a very real possibility.

As to the case of Army scientist Bruce Ivins, we don't know his upbringing, were he went to school, his associates, military units he was with. Was he married? Girl friends. All I am pointing out is that control is on the agenda of bad people. Threw the use of witness testimony.

[akira]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Edwards_Ivins

[e-Male]

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080806/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/anthrax_investigation_ivins

[quote:DAVID DISHNEAU, Associated Press Writer Wed Aug 6, 5:52 PM ET]
And then there is a bizarre poem written months after the attacks. In it, Ivins described "exchanging personalities" and said the sensation was "rather fun."

www.salon.com/wires/ap/us/2008/08/06/D92D20HO0_anthrax_investigation/print.html

[quote:LARA JAKES JORDAN and MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer, Aug 6th, 2008]
"He said he was not going to face the death penalty, but instead had a plan to kill co-workers and other individuals who had wronged him," according to one affidavit. In e-mails to colleagues, Ivins described a feeling of dual personalities, the material said.

Disturbing implications, especially when comparing what a co-worker said

Friends like former microbiologist LuAnn Battersby said the meek, rumpled Ivins she knew during eight years at Fort Detrick didn't seem capable of murder or suicide.

"If you asked me to make a list of the six nuttiest people there, Bruce wouldn't even hit it," she said.

with

But the picture painted by law enforcement is one of a deeply troubled and unstable man with serious mental health issues.

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

It's easy to trash the dead guy. Also, the FBI said their case was circumstantial. Translation = no direct evidence.

[aften]

Dave comment: The problem as I see it, is that no autopsy was performed by an medical examiner on Mr Ivens. In addition is it standard procedure for "investigators" to inform a
suspect of "impending indictment"? Well sure if the person has a mental button that indicates a weakness (so push it). Or to inform the suspect for a (good cover story) because the guy suffered from depression. I suffer from depression every time I see Nancy Pelosie, but I rebound from it. The College obsession story was really corny in wikpedia in regards to the many achievements of this man. Character assassins. If I was family - I would demand retraction.

Along with the rest of the slander. Hell I would sue.

The problem with no autopsy shows to me really how bad they wanted their man.

Dave comment:
A quote from a blogger below, crude as it is the blogger makes a point. Along with Cal's point about the FBI saying the case was circumstantial

The real bummer is that the DOJ cannot claim a stat for a conviction because the perp died before, not after, the indictment was returned or the criminal complaint was filed.
Comment by Ex-DOJ - August 1, 2008 at 1:22 pm


Late in July 2008, investigators informed Ivins of his impending prosecution for his alleged involvement in the 2001 anthrax attacks that Ivins himself had previously assisted authorities in investigating. It has been reported that the death penalty would have been sought in the case.[21] Ivins maintained his security clearance until July 10 however; ironically, Ivins had been publicly critical of the lab's security procedures for several years. [22]

[aften]

Another thought: How convenient for wikpedia to have so much information on the man in just a few days.

Makes one wounder if the "investigators" are listed as well?

[e-Male]

Dave,

I know you enjoy researching things. Here's an FYI.

If you click on the history tab of any wiki page, you can see when and "who" did an edit, and you can even inspect the exact edit details by comparing a pair of revs.

For example, on en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bruce_Edwards_Ivins&action=history, you can see a huge amount of active edits going on beginning this month following Ivins reported suicide. There are over 300 or 350 edits by many identified as well as unidentified contributors. "Richard Arthur Norton" appears to be the most prominent editor, but that page started off very simply when it was created by "Wingnutrules" on Aug 1st. en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bruce_Edwards_Ivins&diff=prev&oldid=229182610

If you get real curious, you can use some network tools to try to ID the anonymous editors by their IP addresses. Sometimes they show up only in domains owned by companies or institutions.

Sometimes wiki pages are more interesting on their discussion or history tabs than on the actual entry page.

/e-Male

[aften]

Thanks e-Male, humm documents that are not legal worthy have a short shelf life.

And I think Muller (FBI) is a poor administrator. I am not basing my opinion on the Ivan's case.

I think my nickname for him will kindly be: new shoes Muller.

[e-Male]

This thread started off with the suspect news reports on Ivins, dipped into Kay Griggs, and overall has the whiff of conspiracy and coverup.

So, blithely disregarding the Pavlovian reaction to the word "conspiracy", I offer up the reporting from the site of one of the best known conspiracy theorists: Mr. Alex Jones.

www.infowars.com/?p=3787
FBI Anthrax Case: Paid Witnesses?

A friend once advised me not to attribute something to malice or malevolence which could be just as easily be attributed to incompetence or stupidity. But from all the credible evidence, the anthrax case would beg for massive institutional incompetence.

/e

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

E

My version of your quote is to never grant anyone credit for ingelligence they might not possess. Case in point - cops make lousy crooks because they always assume their word will be taken at face value.

Some years ago another investigator contacted me with regards to a case he was working on.
A DEA agent in San Diego was accused by a drug dealer of shaking him down for money. It seems, he paid the shakedown and then the agent turned around and busted him anyway.
Well. YOU COULDN'T SHUT THIS GUY UP. Ultimately, the investigation expanded to four DEA agents.

With all four of them, I found real estate holdings far exceeding what could have been had based upon their salaries and none of them had a rich uncle who had died. They made no effort to obfiscate their ownership and it was a slam dunk confirming that the squeeler was telling the truth.

None of this gets filed under terribly bright.

In another instance, another investigator gets ahold of me because then Gov Dukmajian of California had nominated a fellow to be the state's insurance commissioner. What twitched some the wrong was was that this fellow's lawyer was known to have only one client, The Gambino Family. They had done all of the criminal backgrounds on the nominee and he was coming up clean and the suspicion was that he'd been wiped from the computer systems in the state.

As it happens, I had an old set of microfiche for Los Angeles County and, sure enough, there he was. Now that it was confirmed that he had been purged from the governmental systems,
the investigator went to a contact in the Canadian Mounties and reconstructed this guy's rap sheet using their resources combined with Interpol. He didn't get to be insurance commissioner.

Politicians get pretty adept at covering their trails. Even so, the level of arrogance present with the dems is well outside of the bell curve. It requires only that someone take a good look.

[aften]

This thread started off with the suspect news reports on Ivins, dipped into Kay Griggs, and overall has the whiff of conspiracy and coverup.

Dave comment: Yes E I did this to show that the Army has boys among the men.

So, blithely disregarding the Pavlovian reaction to the word "conspiracy", I offer up the reporting from the site of one of the best known conspiracy theorists: Mr. Alex Jones.

www.infowars.com/?p=3787
FBI Anthrax Case: Paid Witnesses?

Dave comment: Mr. Alex Jones methods is what I question. He (if I recall correctly) claims to inform the public. But he comes off as a bit of an extremist himself.


A friend once advised me not to attribute something to malice or malevolence which could be just as easily be attributed to incompetence or stupidity. But from all the credible evidence, the anthrax case would beg for massive institutional incompetence.

/e

Dave comment: Well said, but I disagree. The evidence points to the fact that director Muller changed the direction of the case. From one suspect to another. He as director can do that. The institution responded to his direction. As a private citizen I don't want to see our men in uniform bullied. Most of the men in the Army understand death before dishonor. People are convicted everyday on circumstantial evidence. I think in the cases involving military personnel the bar should be a little higher (especially in a capital case).

In addition Army personnel protect and provide for FBI personnel. If Muller cares about his men and women. He would do well not to start an inter agency conflict.

Nobody wins in this case and that "seems" to be a fact. Unless Muller gets his act together and lets the Dems know, when he comes to quid pro quo - no can do with the military. In addition Tom Delay is a looser.

[e-Male]

Dave,

I think you misunderstood what I was implying. Only if one attributed massive institutional incompetence to the FBI, which is hardly likely in my opinion, could one avoid the conclusion that there is more likely malfeasance or malevolence behind the latest revelations regarding Ivins.

I can be too clever in my phrasing, and miss conveying my point. My apologies for not being direct.

True, Alex Jones does have that patina of extremism, but I think that's painted on by his detractors. He himself speaks to the problem of our country being subverted by individuals whose goals are antithetical to the Constitution and to individual freedom and liberty. He does gather his evidence, despite peppering it freely with conjecture.

It's difficult to claim and prove conspiracy when the conspirators aren't themselves forthcoming with self-implicating facts. You need to connect the dots from what you can establish. I think Jones does do that with some believability.

This is not to say I'm fully on-board with all of Jones' claims, just that I think he deserves at least equal hearing with the official versions.

Definitely I agree that Muller most likely was responsible for redirecting things with the goal of closing the anthrax matter. Just as Cal said, it's so easy to blame the dead guy. He can't defend himself. And the entire matter of the "social worker" / "psychiatrist" / "therapist" (depending on which reporter's account you read) is entirely suspect, being at such extreme odds with statements by people who worked with or knew Ivins.

I'm just not buying the FBI's facile and self-admittedly circumstantial conclusion to the anthrax case. First Hatfill, then Ivins. And years after the most significant evidence was well-known -- the anthrax strain DNA evidence was revealed back in 2002.

I may have missed something regarding Ivins' employment, but I'm not sure why you seem to think that Muller is treating military people poorly. The lab where Ivins worked falls under the DoD, but I don't believe anywhere it has been said Ivins was in the military. It might be civil service, but not military. But I just don't know and haven't seen mention. Being a "former active-duty Marine" (never an "ex-Marine" ), I'm usually quite sensitive to accusations against active military members. Would you please clarify that for me?

Best regards,
/e