Country is Headed to a Constitutional Crisis

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Hollis

It was Gore who tried to have things decided (in his favor) in the courts. What you lefties continually fail to accept is the why Gore lost Dade and Miami counties. Two words - Elian Gonzalez.

Read the HQ page on Elian and the illegal acts perpetrated by the Democrat Clinton admininstration then factor in that the largest Cuban American populations are IN Miami/Dade.
Incidentally, there are photos there of storm troopers holding a gun on the kid.

Also missing from your diaglogue is the 'fact' that Gore didn't try for a statewide recount. He only wanted the counts from democrat counties while at the same time, the Democrats managed to prevent the votes from American servicemen from being counted.

I'd suggest you get your 'news' from a source that doesn't have Communist as an initial.
CNN CBC BBC CNBC NBC CBS or ABC

Also note, the Elian Gonzalez page was posted well in advance of the election.

[rob]

Hollis -

I don't have a lot of good things to say about W these days, but man am I sick of this old tripe. If we're gonna gripe about him, let's at least gripe about things that actually happened.

In 2000, the votes were counted according to standard election laws NO FEWER THAN THREE TIMES. In every single count, George W Bush was found to be the winner. Gore took his case to the Supreme Court asking for the rules for counting votes to be changed AFTER the voting had already taken place. This would be something like one team asking the officials to change the rules of the football game after the game has started because the other team was winning.

Incidentally, after Bush was inaugurated several major newspapers performed their own count of the votes. Every one of them found that Bush indeed won. Further, they suggested that if the Supreme Court had ruled in favor of Gore and changed the rules, Bush would have won by an even wider margin. Personally, I think if you can't even figure out how to vote for the guy you want to win, you probably shouldn't be permitted to vote in the first place. But that's just me.

If you want to see an election being stolen, just watch the news tonight and see the stories about ACORN. I saw last night how laptop computers have been "stolen" from several ACORN offices in late night break-ins. How convenient.

Bush Derangement Syndrome. He's either the evil GENIUS who managed to steal an election right out from under our noses and then MASTERMIND the 9-11 attacks to push the US into war, or he's such a dumb dunce that he can't even spell his own name depending on the spin of the day. He can't be both.

We don't have to like W, but let's stop fooling ourselves and each other. He won it fair and square two times. If you must blame somebody, blame Ralph Nader. The liberal votes he took from Gore would have made up the difference and Gore would have won Florida handily.

[e-Male]

Oct 15, 2008 15:30:12 GMT -5 stephen said:

Hi Dave,

If the delay puts discovery after the election and he is subsequently disqualified it means that there will be no elected president after George W. The country would be without a President, and I'm not sure, but I don't think the constitution has provisions for such a situation. What happens next would certainly be without precedent.

Stephen,

Article II Section 1, and the 20th and 25th Amendments deal with succession of the President. The Veep gets promoted, and then a new Veep has to be nominated and approved by both Houses of Congress.

Nixon and Agnew showed us that the country won't be left without leadership in the two highest executive offices. For the unfamiliar readers: VP Spiro T. Agnew resigned after a corruption and bribery scandal plea agreement. Richard Nixon nominated Gerald Ford, who was approved by Congress. Then Watergate broke and Nixon resigned rather than drag the nation through impeachment proceedings, and Gerald Ford got promoted from his appointed VP position to become an appointed President.

That pretty well tested nearly the full gamut of the Presidential succession rules in the 25th Amendment. It appears that the 20th Amendment might get some testing in the case that a President doesn't qualify before the start of serving his term of office.

/e

[Adam]

While it is good to know the difference between a republic and a democracy. It is as cal stated: The constitution is dead. Why? Because when you have campaign donations from companies and special interest groups, combined with lobbyists, what we end up with is massive corruption.

Lobbyists actually sit down with the elected officials staffers and help craft legislation. The people who will get paid in the bailout, are the people who donated and lobbied the most.

This is an ongoing process on both sides of the isle. With no end in sight. Benefactors in government are Hillary, Nancy P, Mc Cain, Barrack and everyone else to varying degrees.

No one in government can stop the bribe machine.

[e-Male]

Hollis,

As an addendum to what both Cal and Rob said, not only was there a tremendous effort by Democrat lawyers to suppress the military vote nationwide but particularly in Florida (military votes are largely Republican), but the networks decided they'd try to kill Florida's best last chance of getting any more Republican votes by calling the state's winner as Gore before the polls closed in the Florida panhandle, which is a real conservative stronghold in the state. The turnout in the panhandle was curiously low for a presidential election because so many voters who would normally have voted on the way home after work figured "why bother?" if their man had already lost.

The indignation and uproar that followed on the heels of Gore's legal games led to a revision in the national reporting such that the pollsters will no longer release their state exit polling results now until after all of a particular states' polls close, which should prevent the talking heads from trying to influence the results whether intentionally or inadvertently.

Also, with respect to your exhibition of Bush Derangement Syndrome, if Gore had carried his home state, Tennessee with its 13 electoral votes, Florida's results wouldn't have mattered. Instead of Bush's 271 to Gore's 266, it would have been 258 to 279. But they knew him best at home.

Not that I think President Bush has done much right, but I detest liars and distorters and those who simply repeat the same unfounded drivel.

Feel free to hammer Bush for all the things he really has done wrong for our nation's well-being -- like create the largest expansion of our federal government in the nation's history, and now his nationalizing of private financial institutions (paying private debts with public moneys) with his ill-conceived bailout.

But stop repeating the whining lies. Gore lost legitimately. The US Supreme Court simply stated that neither Gore nor Florida's leftwing state Supreme Court were allowed to change the rules once the game was underway.

Whatever you think you know about it to make your inane assertion is only a second-hand distortion. I live here, and have a real interest in what the Democrats were trying to do to circumvent our state's election laws.

Frankly, the re-re-recount was incidental compared to their success in discounting the overseas military votes. They disenfranchised the very citizens who literally put their lives on the line for their faith and love of this country. You should be sorely ashamed of that.

Eight years later and I'm still livid about it.

Sorry for the rant, but it does feel good to vent.

/e

[mar10]

Rob. Good response. I too am not an american, but I knew this. However, many in the US do not know that they do not live in a democracy. The US is a Constitutional Representative Republic, but it is quickly moving into something else. And John Adams was correct - essentially democracy is just another word for MOB RULE. The LEFT in the US hate the constitution, and it is constantly being eroded. Why, it is a "living document" that needs to be interpreted by the left every time they want something. And if they don't get their way, they take it to an activist judge who rules according to International law or some stupid thing. Tough times ahead.

[rob]

Marten -

How frustrating that situation is, even the President routinely refers to America as a democracy. It drives me nuts. Our representatives in Washington do the same. Too many of us have forgotten our Constitution and our history.

Dave Price expresses the frustration very clearly. I feel it too, and at times I'm tempted to throw in the towel. I concede the point that the Constitution is, at best, on life support. I have given up on the individuals holding elected office in Washington DC. I support McCain for two reasons only - to stall off the inevitable collapse under our own corruption, and of course our governor Sarah Palin. At least if Obama wins, we get our governor back. As for the rest in DC, I no longer believe in all but a handful of them. Frankly, think that if we replaced both houses of Congress with 535 people chosen at random out of the phone book, the replacements probably wouldn't do any worse than those currently in power and might actually do better. But I digress....

I still believe in the American "system" of government and the Constitution wholeheartedly. I'm not ready to pull the plug on the Consitution or the people just yet.

On PHQ it says (I paraphrase here) - while there is still life there is hope. I'm still breathing air, so I hold onto the hope and try to influence the thinking of those who are willing to hear.

Of course, IF our reading of the code is right, an angelic intervention is imminent. Jesus appears to confirm this in the Matthew verses Cal posted here that we have been discussing. Whether the tribulation in question is a natural or political or economic disaster, or a combination of these, it provides hope as well as a different perspective on the current troubles.

Frequently these days I think of another verse, this one from 2nd Chronicles, Chapter 7.

[14] If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

In any case, let Father's Will be done. My hopes and wishes are pretty much irrelevant.

[Jeremiah]

That's understandable Jer. If and when you ARE a US citizen - and have educated yourself about the subjects which you admit you know nothing about - your opinions on how we Americans should conduct our elections and other internal affairs may be worth listening to. In the meantime...not so much.

guys, guys, guys it's always the same you try to change the subject... I' try to keep it simple but somehow you complicate it, the thing is as is: bobby stated bush is the last american president elected we have until november 4th to see if he's right or wrong, as simple as that, dont reply me please until then.
peace

[Caligastia Lanonandek]

Jere - say bye bye - You can go insult some other people - the web is filled with forums. You have nothing to offer anyone - least of all yourself. Unlike you, the folks here aren't waiting for me to be wrong and I've always admitted the possibility. Regardless, the many times that I have been right - speak for themselves. You're in a no win position and I'm done screwing with you.

[Jeremiah]

Jere - say bye bye - You can go insult some other people
are you banning me? so soon? I haven't insult anyone yet that I know, sorry if I did.

You have nothing to offer anyone
I have nothing to offer.... to you, for the others let me hear thieir own opinion

You're in a no win position and I'm done screwing with you.

Of couse I'am , here's your forum, but it's other way around it's me screwing you around and you can't handle it, thus you ban me. pretty obvious.

[Deleted]

kinda think the whole prince of lala land counts as an insult jer...

[Adam]

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www.opensecrets.org/lobby/index.php

[hollis]

Ah geez, again with calling me a leftie. I write with my left hand. Just because I fail to genuflect before either party doesn't make me a damn communist. But I will admit that my interactions on this board have steered me more right from the middle than I was before I started here. Also Cal, I do not get news from any of those sources, or from Fox News. Try to guess where I get it from.

My point was that the decision for who would become president, regardless of who initiated the legal action, was the courts.

And I will take e-male's comments as closest to the truth since he was actually in Florida at the time. I quote "Whatever you think you know about it to make your inane assertion is only a second-hand distortion. I live here, and have a real interest in what the Democrats were trying to do to circumvent our state's election laws."

[stephen]

Davidfirstaidprice,

I sent you a private message.

Stephen

[Adam]

Cal, I have responded to Stephens message. My advise to Stephen was to move forward.
If Stephens visions are true, (and I think they are) then all I can say is welcome and thank you.
And I feel humbled and honored that Stephen would reach out to me.